-dark magic allready present with necro, fire is not.
-dark theme is kinda similar to necro's. fire theme could be with dwarves and but they lost voting. inferno only faction kinda similar to fire theme.
-sylvan is kinda similar to dungeon with its elves and having them as leaders of a faction.
-dungeon voters said mythical creatures, but inferno has them too. also unlike dark elves, demons are one of the oldest & popular all-round-world known myth... like for thousands of years.
-not possibility, its about different story, so its automatically better than past stories which repeated over and over.
-purple has some troubles stated above by other users.
-demons has countless shapes and literally has lots of innovation in line-up. it was before and it will be again. i expect many new creatures, or many new looks.
-inferno does not have line-up problems like dungeon do(will it be like enorth dungeon or will it ashan? how many elves will be there? how many elves we can tolerate/we want? etc etc...)
-ashan dungeon is not older than ashan inferno.
-in release of core game, there should be unsimilar factions as possible it can has, because game needs to appeal good to a lot of people to make money, and therefore to make add-ons, DLCs and expansion packs. people have very different kind of tastes. you cant really setisfy inferno type players with other 5 factions. you can maybe satisfy some dungeon players by necro or sylvan because they have similarities like i listed above.
as you can see there are quite much arguements by inferno voters. on the other hand, i dont see much from dungeon voters, most of arguements from them are just wrong.
"black dragons is a must" type of comments are also not rare. one creature is not important than factions themselves, and it doesnt say much in favor of discussion. because its just a personal preferance.
if you guys have some arguements to offer, then i would like to listen.
Very well made points. You forgot 1 more Dungeon argument they are using:
"Heroes without Dungeon is not Heroes." That one should make anyone vote dungeon ;)
Nicely Done Cleglaw. Urgash is smiling on you.
Long Live Inferno
Let's be clear. Inferno doesn't have line up. In every new game it's a different town. What is worse in Heroes 6 they casted away all creatures that united Inferno in previous games.
what do you mean?
inferno has some essential creatures like all other factions in ashan. succubus, cerberus and pit lords are identical non-changing creatures of inferno for last 3 games, cerberus even older, present in inferno since it began to appear(h3). imps are in all games except h6.
this means 4 our of 7 creatures. how come this not forms a line-up?
Thank you travis. About that:
-HoMM 1: has Warlock town, it has centaur/griffin/gargoyle/minotaur and dragon. pretty much mix of all faction creatures. only minotaur seems "dungeon". and the dragon is just dragon, it may refer to any dragon from any faction. different name and only one creature from our dungeon, but all other factions has one crature.
conclusion: h1 warlock town is not dungeon town.
forget to add: hydra is in h1, h2 as Warlock, in h3 as swamp town Fortress. i will continue later to speak about.
-HoMM 2: same line up like before
-HoMM 3: Dungeon and Inferno appears at the same time. hydra is not in line up. minotaur+black dragon seems to come from Warlock. medusa+troglodyte+harpy+evil eye are all new appearing creatures. medusa appears as neutral before.
Conclusion: with H3, we have Dungeon, and it is nearly complete new town with its line-up. Dungeon is not older.
Cerberus. We pretty much doesn't have them in H6.
Pit Lords 2/4
So 2 creatures is not something that united inferno in all heroes games. And 2(well it's really 3) cretures have been thrown away in Heroes6. And this people dare to say that warlock in H2, dungeon in other heroes games are different towns.
-HoMM 4: Chaos town has 5 creatures from previous games Dungeon. It also has 2 creatures from Inferno(efreet+nightmare). nightmares first appearance. Death town has 3 Inferno creatures Imps, Cerberus, Devils.
conclusion: both Inferno and Dungeon messed up. All towns losed their names, but they still has 5 creatures in game.
-HoMM 5: Dungeon and Inferno name comes back. Minotaur+Black dragon=2 creatures from past Warlocks and Dungeons. Dark elves first appearance with 4 units. Hydras back again. Rest creatures are new. Inferno has Imps+Cerberus+Pit Lords+Devils=4 creatures from past. Rest are new but they are still demons.
conclusion: In HoMM5, Dungeon changed much more than Inferno.
Dungeon comes in expansion. ranged elf tier 1 unit+manticore from h3+minotaur+evil eye+black dragon=5 creatures from previous dungeons. Inferno in core game, succubus+cerberus+pit lords= 3 creatures from previous games. Rest are new.
conclusion: Inferno changed more than Dungeon.
Final conclusion: With its theme & name, Dungeon and Inferno both appeared 3 times. 4 with H4, as seperated into different line ups.
Warlock town is too much of a mix to call Dungeon, it has a unnamed dragon can be originated to any faction, hydra, centaure and gargoyle as no-real-home creatures, changing factions constantly from one place to another.
Appearance of most iconical Dungeon Creatures
Minotaur=3(5 with Warlock, 6 with Chaos)
Black Dragon=3(5 with Warlock, 6 with Chaos)
Evil Eye=2(3 with Chaos)
Hydra=1(3 with Warlock, 4 with Chaos)
Medusa=1(2 with HoMM neutral)
Elf ranged unit=2
Appearance of most iconical Inferno Creatures
Cerberus=3(4 with Death)
Imps=2(3 with Death)
Devil=2(3 with Death)
Efreet=1(2 with Chaos)
Nightmare=1(2 with Chaos)
Final conclusion: Both have 3-3-2-2-1-1. Exactly same results. Dungeon and Inferno are equal in means of iconicalness.
Interesting isnt it?
So we can easy say that if Dungeon has a old line-up, so Inferno does too. Even at same ages, same counts.
Correction to dungeon, medusa also appeared in H4 Chaos, so +1 to her. She is 2(3 with HoMM 1 neutral)
Remarkable arguments and analysis. Pity that 5/6 appearances of unicorn didnt save him (side note). From gameplay point of view dungeon was always focused more on spellpower and inferno on knowledge and atack althought both have been fire/destructive magic factions. Right now there does not seem to be any spellpower focused faction. I think both would have its place, it is by no means obvious that someone should vote one or other. Pity that devs force this kind of decisions.
Fire magic-Dark magic seperation becomes more noticable as the timeline comes to H7. In H6 we can see lots of destructive and offensive magic with Fire, and with Dark magic, we see control spells+buff/debuff.
And to be pointed out, we can also see two types of connections Dark magic-Darkness, Fire magic-Hellfire. As we may guess, this two connections are faction-wise connections. Even in buildings we feel this. For example: a building in Inferno provides "free minor armegeddon".
And spellpower became equally important in both factions.
What i see in latest article is that, developers want to make better identified spell schools for each factions. They saw potential in Dungeon to become "stealthy" and they will most likely redesign Dark magic to provide this.(side note: even creature selections will be towards to provide that. "giant spider", "beasts from darkness".) Same goes for Inferno with Fire magic, but instead of "stealthy" they were meant to be "destructive".
I just have a remark for the magic part.(about the Darkness/Fire themes)
It has been said that every faction will have access to 6 scools of magic (except for academy)
As an exemple, Haven heroes will have access to every scool but darkness.
So, I think that both Inferno and Dungeon forbidden magic scool will be light (as they both hate it), so at least both faction will be able to use Darkness dans Fire magic ^^
"Malassa’s magic, the magic of illusions and obfuscation..."
"...Malassa as seekers of forbidden lore and masters of Dark Magic..."
And with clan names "Shadowbrand, Nightshard" and the useage of new resource "Shadowsteel" in army, i even feel more convinced to this idea.
I know there will be 6 spell schools for every faction, but i think they will try to make Dungeon to master Dark magic best. But how? I dont know. I expect same evolve/devolve for Inferno at Fire magic-destruction.
Probably. i guess the same that they both will be distant from light magic.
Another question comes to my mind after these brainstorm:
Beasts in Dungeon, Manticore-Minotaur-Hydra will manage to fit this theme? I can hardly imagine them waking silently & stealthy or using darkness to fight their enemies.
On the other hand i have no doubt that Faceless, Shadow Dragon, Giant Spider and Elven units in this faction can use this kind of battle style.
I think involing these 3 iconic creature in this theme may cause some problems, both logically and lore-wise.
Well, I doubt we'll get the Hydra over Faceless as Champion. And I doubt even more that we'll see spiders when there is already a Spider Cult aka Necropolis. In DoC Necropolis has a lot of spider cards so I really don't see them putting spiders in Dungeon too.
Well, at least Inferno voters can reason beyond the "Dungeon is the best" type of arguments.
Vote Inferno! :)
Cleglaw you just blew me away your analysis is pretty awesome.
that makes sense, so i assume giant spiders will be neutral creatures.
and thanks for your appreciation BeYo_OnD. knowing my time spent in something useful, makes me feel better.
thank you lokdron. feel free to contribute if you like to.
@Logical.dust during H6 inferno was a the spell power faction heck their base magic class was called warlock. Pyromancer normally left nothing on the field of battle well the class is kinda OP.
I don't know what else I could say you went pretty in depth I am more of a lore nut so to speak.
Dungeon isnt similar as sylvan, exept the heroe and 1/2 monster who will be similar bcs they are sylvan, that's all. Stop think that dungeon is a copy of sylvan, it's not, they are so much differents, and that's why i voted Dungeon, because they are differents. And I don't have to argue about my choice, i just pref Dungeon as Inferno, but i'll don't cry if Dungeon lose, because i know that they will put inferno/Dungeon (depend of the vote) in the next extension.
Same with fortress, i voted for them, but np if they lost, Ubi will put them in the next extension ( I wanted to say "Riot will....") haha
Let's be honest. Nightmares come to Inferno from Chaos. It was imposible for nightmares to come to Chaos from Inferno. And as you mentioned Death town has 3 Inferno creatures Imps, Cerberus, Devils. So Inferno has only 3 creaturs in H4. Well, if you insist that Inferno has 5 creatures then let's coun dungeon creatures in later game:
5: Gydra(6), dragon(6), minotaur(6), grifon(6), centaur(6), gargoyle(5), manticore(6). 7 And it's all without elves. And i can forget abot somebody.
So do you undersrand now how foolish it was to account another towns' creatures as Inferno creatures in 1 game?
And 1 more thing. Pitlords from H5+H6 and pitlords from H3 are absolutely different creatures. And for succubus from H5 and H6 situation is not so different.
Ah sory. Manticore wasn't in all games.
And if yuo look on another factions than it's obvious that dungeon is on the third place according to the conservative.
I know. My english is pretty bad.
@ lokdron : all arguments that start "In H6 it was ..." I ignore completely. That was not heroes game, it was utter most disaster. If you want to make some point use something else. I also tend to ignore arguments of "In ashan it is like ..." because H5 was not that much of ashan and H6 see note above. There have not been 1 successful ashan heroes game and best thing that devs could do is scrap that idea completely with all names, dark elves, resources and duchies ...
не пизди давай
I'm not sure what absent-minded people are voting for you comments (I'm inclined to believe that you've added multiple accounts) because your arguments are ridiculously stupid. They either don't make any sense or are similar to reasons why you shouldn't have demons (i.e. orcs are similar, dungeon has innovation and better story, too many demonic creatures in the line-up, cant satisfy dungeon/evil players with one dimensional demons). Inferno were enemies in almost every H5+H6 campaign, enough!
Have you played the previous heroes games or are you just looking up what creatures those games had? Because if you had played since H1 like myself, you would be able to see the evolution of Warlock into Dungeon. Obviously the creatures change, which is a good thing, but the style, strengths and weaknesses are similar. It may not be called the Warlock faction, but it has the soul of one. And while the Warlocks have evolved, the demons have stayed one-dimensional and stale.
There are so many other things I could point to as mistakes that you've made, but the comment system is not great so I'll stick with one of the worst:
"conclusion: In HoMM5, Dungeon changed much more than Inferno"
Are you kidding? In H4, there was no demon-faction, no demon-based story and in M+M8 they were classed as being wiped out by Catherine Ironfist during Armageddon's Blade. In H4, Chaos did not just share similar creatures with the Dungeon faction, but similar gameplay and heroes.
Possible troglodytes? Reptilian creatures, like basilisks? Omg, vote Dungeon!
Troglodytes are not a certainty. Marzhin himself said that he doesn't know if they'll be in the game.
Source - http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=40444&PID=1249354#focus
Best assume worse case scenario if you don't want to end up with a line-up that you don't like. You know what happened with Sylvan, right?
Thats what possible means. Just the chanse of seeing the little blind rascals again is more then enough for me!
Well I wouldn't trade my vote for a chance to have a low level Troglodyte that hasn't iterate in no Might and Magic title under Ubisoft.
I'd rather trade my vote for a Champion or at least Elite Efreeti which has been seen in DoC, so it's an established Ashan creature.
But that's just me :)
i guess it will be natural creature, not dungeon. ". If they do exist, I suppose they are probably minor Earth spirits, but it’s just as likely they are just an old folktale. "
that was a great troglodyte hint, return of master race!!!!!
How in the hell can you read all of that and take in the trogs and reptilian part? Did you not read the next several paragraphs regarding nothing but elves making up the army? My guess is no you didn't.
Slum quite a few people WANT the elf part of the army. I think its highly likely a h1-h3 warlock/dungeon is not happening. Even some people who dislike inferno admit the destructive magic angle of old warlock was put into inferno for H6. Considering there is no mention of destructive magic in this article Inferno is going to be handling that aspect. I am quite glad in that fact cause people recently started saying dungeon is the "best" at fire magic and I was like. =_=
THE RIGHT WAY TO VOTE THE SIXTH FACTION:
and then we will select a proper lineup with REAL demons (definitely not some weak-ass elves)!
❤ INFERNO, VOTED ❤
dear developers! make beautiful girls! BDSM style must be present !!!
Release inferno notes so people can vote inferno already, silly dark elfs.
I Find this article really good and just another proof dungeon is nothing like sylvan and has a completely different society, battle style and creatures
I am Irollan lover but I have to say I like the description of dark elves really much. And I really like the fact they are very different than Sylvan elves. But there will be always people unable to see the difference just ebcause they are blind.
Voted Inferno after seeing this disappointing lore on the dark elves. So there's little, if no change from the past games.
I was hoping for some more Heroes 3 dungeon but as I see it there's no mention of Medusa, Minotaurs or Manticores at all. There's just the Troglodyte but that's such a low level creature it can't sway me to vote Dungeon. And we might even not get it.
No, I'm going Inferno. At least there's no surprise there, demons will still be demons.
But you know it's so weird, people honestly simply smashed Dungeon units from H6, and yet developers seem to stick to them! Sooo disappointing
It is very disappointing. People should really think twice before voting. They might end up with something entirely else than what they were hoping for when they voted.
Yes to Troglodytes. Yes to Giant Spiders. No to having more than 2 Elf units max in the Dungeon.
That's what i think too.
More creatures, less racial units for the diversity's sake. :)
Same here. I wonder how it would be having something looking H3-basilisk-like in this castle lineup...
With Dungeon, we will have 2 factions with dark magic affinity and 0 factions with fire magic affinity.
With Inferno, we will have a faction with fire magic affinity and a faction with dark magic affinity.
Think of the diversity, game play wise.
If Dungeon is done like in the previous games, then they'll have affinity to all schools, so no, I vote Dungeon over the red blobs
i see no minotaur in this lore O_o
i dont want to see inferno losing to a no-minotaur-faction. what the heck?
They're slaves, why would they be mentioned much? Who cares, anyway. Dungeon is bound to have an interesting lineup, minotaurs or otherwise.
So they took their time to mention "possible" troglodytes, but not the iconic minotaur?
You Dungeon voters will so regret your vote when they'll reveal the lineups.
no. i cant accept this. they were powerful heroes and units back in enroth. it would be a big loss if they are really going to make them slaves.
they are not slaves, the were given to dungeon has slaves from academy as a gift, but like sanctuary then set them free and are know free people in the dungeon faction.
_commom @Cleglaw there is a black Dragon, That's enough!
On Heroes Community, Marzhin has stated that were Dungeon to get voted, He'd do his utmost to get Darkstorm in as a Minotaur magic Hero.
" they are not slaves, the were given to dungeon has slaves from academy as a gift, but like sanctuary then set them free and are know free people in the dungeon faction. "
There's plenty of references to them as such, or is HoMM V's lore no longer valid?
The line-ups aren't made yet, So they are mostly careful about the creatures they are mentioning. Their existence can be read between lines, like a lot reptilian creatures, creatures from the darkness and elite forces in arms and armour made from shadowsteel. You can fill these mentions with shadow lurkers (beholders), manticores, minotaurs and hydras. And other possibilities.
I actually think they should have hinted the minotaurs and some others directly, The "safe" appriach doesn't work here.
500 is sometimes not enough.
The minotaurs being slaves was pretty much either retconned out or made into a more clan soulscar thing.
The troglodyte mention... well people have some strange liking of them, and many wan't to see them agains. So similar to a few MM:DoC cards they get a cameo mentioning.
Wow, this was an utter disappointment!
So let me get this straight. Dark Elves are practically retreated homeless people high on mushrooms all the time, and some of them that are more powerful become... esoteric sleepwalkers. =))
My God, this is a disaster,.. So there's little change from Heroes 6! Heck, even the Purple is still there, but they tried their best to hide it under non-colored art!!
At this point, Inferno is not just an option, but a salvation from Dungeon!
Please vote Inferno!
Well, Inferno is no better. Their army is just a huge red blob.
I beg to differ, but you'll see tomorrow how cool Inferno actually is. :)
What? red blob? nonsence. only breeder is kinda blob.
an obvious hate propaganda by inferno supporter, get back to your hole, this was a well written lore piece with very interesting observations, great read
We're gonna get a sylvan in form of dungeon. 5 humanoids and a dragon. if dungeon gets voted it's going to suck
About the humanoid part, Inferno is also mostly humanoid in shape... But i will agree that dungeon is not humanoid and the text above confirms it. Dark elves rely on stronger creatures for open battles. We confirm the Assassin and blood fury and possibly one more humanoid. We have the dragon and faceless as well. That leaves place for 3 more creatures.
I hate the faceless and I hate the witches. What I read confirms both of them. Shadow priests sound to be the same as witches. Elite SOILDERS in SHADOWSTEEL.....in other words, a haven soilder colored purple. Dungeon with maybe 2 elves is okay but this is gonna be terrible
again some elves for concept. and this time even their hair is purple now. lore is nice and all but still blurry. like toglodyte is present or not present? are they dungeon army or just natural? so blurry and not informative at all.
Troglodytes are not part of the army, they might exist and if they do they will probably be neutrals. There might be 3 elven units. Though i'd count more on one core (assassin) and one elite (Shadow Knight, grim rider or Matriarch). The purple will be very much toned down. What we see are probably heroes VI artworks to fill the article and not actual heroes VII arts.
let's hope so
If minotaurs are back, please make them like in H6, ability and looks (except being purple). No more piggy-goaty fatty from H5 :D
i love minotaurs, h6 had good model i agree. lets hope its upgraded version wont be painted in purple.. sometimes i regreg upgrading them lol.
Yea same with the manticores. They both looked better not upgraded
An entire race of Emos, Goths, and Scene kids. No wonder they're winning.
Also hate how some of these races (elves) are described as not liking to field actual armies, and use other means to win. Yet this is all the game is about, and they'll field armies anyways. Nations that dont like to field armies should stand no chance against the armies of nations that excel at it when it comes to those armies fighting. Maybe they should actually add racial mechanics based on this lore?
Rhhhhhaaa and dwarves are a race of grumpies :p
PS : I'm just teasing sorry =)
Yeah, I would definitely say that this fellow is living out the dwarf mentality. Love it! But in terms of racial mechanics - wasn't that the whole idea of the invisibility faction skill?
The only emo here is you, constantly whining about elves. Yes, the dark elves are cautious about how they deploy their forces, considering they have had to adapt to a harsh new environment, and exploit their advantages. Thanks for stating the obvious. Perhaps they should add some lore that imbeciles who have no understanding of subtlety and send all their population into pointless wars should go extinct in the end? One can hope.
@Sylv stop whining about all my posts you cry baby elf child. Funny how that works isnt it ? But literally the race is the spitting image of whats popular, dark angsty emo pale people who are yet somehow an actual power and NOT being stuffed into lockers.
Really? there are people who actually liked dungeon in H5 nad H6. weird.
Would seem like the majority going from the vote percentage, but now you mention it I feel the same way about Inferno in 5 & 6. Weird.
Just to confirm, Inferno will also have its own dedicated article ;) See you tomorrow guys!
@Nox thanks for comment, cause some people gona be angry cause Dungeon was 1st.
Alright I will wait patiently then at least this article will stop the whole dungeon is better at destructive magic talk. >_<
It's also worth saying - or actually repeating - that the Inferno campaign won't be about a Bloodmoon Eclipse invasion ;)
Personally if inferno does not win I am still quite excited to read the inferno article can't wait for it. Considering the information here is quite interesting. :)
hy dungeon first, but not two at the same time? and is this really informative enough? i dont think so...
just watch dungeon votes climbing up now. you are murdering inferno more each thing you do. im angry.
I hope so :) Demons in game don't have to mean, that we will have another Eclipse Invasion :P
I'm not upset that dungeons was first, bit the fact that people may of changed their vote after seeing this then don't log in again to see infernos post. This is why you guys should really post them at the same time. If you guys are running out of things to post for us each day, I can give you a plethora of ideas. You must do everything you can to make this fair. Which the fact that you both, ubi-nod and marzhanin voted for dungeon. People may think you are favoring :D regardless I love heroes!
I think this article might shift votes to Inferno side instead of help Dungeon votes climb... Many wanted to see a more classic Dungeon but this article only repeated information we kinda already knew. And there was no mention of other possible units, not even the minotaur was mentioned. Many will believe that this means many Dark elf units to the lineup.
❤ Vote Inferno people! ❤