The spells are good, but so little of them..
Earth : Create an obstacle(destructable), Pestiliance, Summon animal, Petrification
Darkness : Confusion, Vampirism, Puppet master, Curse of the Netherworld
Where are those ?
Dont forget the good old Hand of death. But well... They just dont seem to fit in a "good" heroes. Lol
Bylo by fajn vidět víc kouzel, to jo
I'd probably give dark magic spells 6/10 and earth magic spells 3.5/10. So I'd have to disagree with the notion that these spells are good.
Konečně Češi! :o :DD
No, je nás tu i víc :-D
I think that the general issue with current Schools of Magic is that all of them have just 8 spells, what is simply not enough, especially when remembering that usually each Hero would have access to only two schools of Magic.
Agree with you guys, some spells look nice, but this is mainly disapointment for me. Air magic seems to be more interesting from what we have seen than this two. So many spells missing.
Also Meteor Shower, Force field, Anti-Magic and Implosion (hope its in Prime with all mind spells, but this would make that school too OP)
Agreed, we sorely need those spells.
Jen jsme skryti ve stínech :D
A jen občas ze stínů vylezeme :)
It always seems the same number: eight. Why eight spells only per school?
To je škoda... :( Jako Sylvan s váma ve stínech asi být nemůžu, Malassa by mě hnala! :( :DDD
:DD To já jako Sandro můžu být kdekoliv, ani Draci se na mě nezmůžou :p
@EnergyW - because They choosed path of simplification. Personally I think sometimes they just over do it. Thats, why we have only 8 spells per magic school, weird "random-like" skill system (on the other, it's better than HVI).
There isnt main problem in number of spells, i think its enough to have 56 totally unique spells, the problem is they are not unique and some are really dumb and useless, also cutting the best spells or classicsl from series isnt a good step. I really wnjoyed when for exmp. Haste and Slow were in different schools so one mostly choose one or another to support his style. I trully hate to have both in Prime, same with mind control spells, every school should be able to match another.
Ja vám dám schovávať sa v tieňoch! - Matooob cast spell Word of Light
Máme prsten zatvrzelých - Word of light resisted :P :D
56 spells is ok, but not enough for 7 magic schools, especialy when most heroes will not have acces to more than 2 schools.There is enough spells in game, but there won´t be enough spells in hero´s spellbook.
Totally agree. Create an obstacle is a truly basic and strategic spell.
RRick_CZ : you say that a hero will only learn 2 school, I add to it "How many spell his magic guild will provide for these school ? 2 or 3 ?" :-(
Yes, that´s another problem. I think magic guild will have 1 school always presented (light for haven for ex.) and one random. And you hero will have let´s say light + air, but you get light + fire in your magic guild ? if you know what I mean .. it´s a really bad gamedesign. Maybe it will be better, but I fear the worst already
And I am quite sure they said somewhere that there is no hero class that will have acces to more than 3 schools, not even Academy. But I don´t remember source,so no100%
We had see a magic guild of academy, so we know the number of spell :
7/6/4/2 for academy
And yes, most faction will have one school at each level and one other will never be here.
We can see on this example : if the player choose fire magic, so sad for him, he will only have 2 spell. But if he choose earth, bingo ! He have praticaly all spells of this one.
The only solution is to build the guild before get skills... and in all previous game it was near impossible.
I wonder what is dev's solution for that... :/
Matoob- ty si Slovák? Hej toš to sem fakt nečekal :D Now to the topic, well I'd also like to see more spells.
Haters gona hate. Thats true. Strange thing is however why those that were bigest fans turned into haters. Maybe you can think about that at your brainstorming session. I am not impressed by skill system sofar. It is variant of H6 system which simply sucked. It is only marginally diferent. Designer who created it never played heroes before, took no advises from comunity into consideration and doomed this whole game. Good job. Pity thing is that you dont even try to make it look less H6 like ...
Even if the most vocal are majority or not, they should listen to the most pasionate players. If they don´t want to have a strongfanbase, it´s their fault. Agree with logical.dust
The skill system is vastly different from H6, claiming otherwise is ignorance. H6 had only perks, and spells as skills. Only two hero classes per faction and only acces to magic schools differed between factions. And no randomness at all, which H7 will have. H5 had total randomness on paper (as in acces to skills) but OP cross requsite perks and ultimate skills made some choises to good to pass up. I think this system has potential, with more perks and spells added in DQ and add ons/expansions.
But don't forget, this game is actually provided by the profits they had from H6, maybe even MMX. And devs (or Ubi, can't remember) have confirmed these weren't successful games.
I still blame Ubi, for they didn't have an involvement in H5 (since they were busy with other games). Then they "had" time for H6 and things went downhill. As if someone was toying with money to produce that game.
@ Igelkolnikov : "vastly diferent" is really strong word to use around here. Trust me it is not ignorance. There were also more hero clases in H6, but it was called blood and tears. Spells are now in skillsystem as well in the form of "master of magix 1,2,3". Randomness relly isnt what will save this system, it will only make it worse (you will see). You really are biggest optimist ever if you believe that system will be improved in expansions. Did they improve it in H6? I remember not.
Igelknolnikov, this system HAD potential indeed, how many playrs gave advices ? And did they listen no. And they say the game was shaped by the Shadow Council ? Nice jokes lol
How many players gave advices ? And did they listen to us ? No.
Give us that edit button finaly.
@ EnergyW : they actually said that H6 sold 2mil copies and they are proud about that. That would explain why they so desperately copy H6 at every oportunity. If they believed that H6 isnt way to go H7 would look much diferent imho.
On the comparison to H6 - it looks different. Maybe even works different. BUT the result will be the same - once you choose the starting hero, you will ALWAYS take the same perks.
To make it shorter - this skillsystem provides no replayability.
Yes, but you can choose to play with random perks ;) So the skill system is really good for me :)
Random skills will suck because 7 schools of magic. Agreed with logical.dust, although "haters" is not appropriate term. But we get the gist.
@ Kimarous : (more polite answer as previous one was taken as insult and removed)
1) you are wrong
2) I dont get it
3) you are wrong
I'm not sure what you mean by "biggest fans", logical.dust, but as someone who has played each Heroes game going back 20 years and the MM games going back to the 80s, I could not be categorized as a "hater".
One can be critical without being a "hater" and frankly there is less to be critical of (so far) with H7 than there was with H4 or H6. This game is not "doomed". The sky is not falling. Take a breath.
@ broui : I really lost interest in explaining everything over and over. That hater comment was just open minded look how my or some others people comments may seem recently from ubi perspective. No matter if I give arguments or not, other side (ubi) simply classify them as "hater" and done "safe to ignore". Thats how I feel about it and there isnt really much point in all that ...
not much improved here since H6 and I really do not care if you see it or not. You can do whatever you want with your money. I am sure that I will not buy this game - as I dont like most of it - which is reason why you wont see any more posts from me on this site. Enjoy H7 as much as you want.
as you wish logical, you will come back to play after reviews anyway. because you are wroong and you will see it. this game is not anything like h6, and the construction of game will offer an enjoyable experience. you will eventually agree with me by acctually playing it yourself. currently, you guys are just haters because of understandable reasons. but its ok.
as long as you say h7 looks like h6, you are more or less, on the same track of other more rude members. same shallow critism. it looks like duck so its duck you say, to me its a really rude and shamefull comment to be made, even if your words are looking nice or not, content is rude.
Whoa, now tell me who is blinded, lol
@clegaw > Actually, given that none of us have played the actual game yet, isn't the most sensible judgement to pass that it most likely is a duck if it looks like a duck? I mean, until any of us get hands on the actual finished game, that seems to be the best guess at this point, and since game isn't out, we can't but guess, and arguing that it's actually an elephant even though it looks like a duck just seems wishful thinking.
Hope fire Magic will get - Blindness, Frenzy, Sacrifice, Fireball/Inferno, Armaggedon, Berzerk
Also it would be nice to see Light - Sanctuary, Song of peace, Prayer, Divine Ven, Word of Light, Resurec
Disappointing. Here's why:
1. The abilities of each magic school are almost identical: costs reduced, area of effect, wisdom, etc. At least give them different names to make it look like they might be different.
2. The earth magic spells are unimpressive and weak. The earth master spell is deliberately weakened, for example.
3. What do the following spells have to do with the earth? regeneration, poison spray, poison cloud.
Help! Dark Magic I did not like here! I do not see the main thing - the impact on the mind and vampirism (
Regeneration is Earth Magic from many generations of HOMM, I don't remeber how it was in IV and previous but it IS Ashan, indeed. A logical issue, at least...
yes evey abillity spell creature secondary abbility is exactly the same!!! They couldnt be more lazy then this 6 the same factions different skin. get out the elementals to make up for the extra faction yeah right.. just dont buy the game
"Regeneration is Earth Magic from many generations of HOMM"
Can you name more than H6? H5 is Ashan and they didn't even have an earth magic school. But yes, it is a logical issue for me. Especially when they have a light magic school.
I agree earth magic seems weak.
H5 is Ashan but H5 is different Ashan. What is the term already... oh yes, retcon.
Many spells in six part were useless also. I didn't use some magic school at all because they was very similar each other. It was not need to use Dark Magic, for example. There we can see very similar case. There will couple of optimal builds for mage and what. While I don't understand how it could diversify the game,
@Khan of Slaughter:
Poison is often affiliated with Earth magic in fantasy settings, and Regeneration was always an Earth spell, I believe?
Now that's just paranoid. I'll confess I used 'oldfag' here and there, but it was mostly in response to these "Ashan sucks, because spiders" or "Game sucks, because Erwan" comments.
I could understand no vampirism, but lack of mind control spells is worrisome.
"Poison is often affiliated with Earth magic in fantasy settings" Often? Alright, name 10.
"Regeneration was always an Earth spell, I believe?" Once = H6.
Maybe not exactly a part of a Heroes series, but I'm fairly certain that Regenation was also an Earth spell in Heroes Online and Duel of Champions.
Earth magic has always been a symbol of lifeforce, which is also apparent by Resurrection and Animate Dead spells belonging to Earth magic in Heroes 3.
Many poisons are acquired from plants, which are affiliated with Earth as well.
"Earth magic has always been a symbol of lifeforce" Why do you keep making general statements about things of which you cannot provide more than one example for? I don't even know if you're talking about Heroes or other games or other fantasy worlds that only you apparently know of but cannot speak of.
I'm talking about elements in general, both in Heroes and outside of it. It mostly comes from a basic chain of thought: Earth is related to Forest, Forest is related to Life. Pretty sure that anyone who was in touch with Sylvan would know as much, since that was what elven beliefs were most often all about.
Modern versions of elves are derived from JRR Tolkien. They are represented as being wise and immortal. Nothing to do with earth magic. Anyway that's way off topic.
"Poison is often affiliated with Earth magic in fantasy settings"
"Earth magic has always been a symbol of lifeforce"
"Earth is related to Forest, Forest is related to Life"
These are perceptions. I wouldn't relate earth to the forest, since a forest needs water just a much as it needs earth.
Maybe Ubisoft sees things as you do.
Well poison was affiliated with earth in latest Divinity. Doesn't it soften your heart even a little?
I find those spells and skills generally fine, though of course they could have done more and better.
You know, I could list all the games that use Earth magic for lifeforce and other games that use Earth magic for poisons, but...
Somehow, I doubt it'll take us anywhere, and rhetorical arguments definitely won't get me as many upvotes as simply complaining about why stuff is wrong, so I'll give it up here.
I might understand poison and regen being affiliated with earth magic if it were only earth, water, air and fire, but we also have light, dark and prime magic as well.
i agre with you about the skill but not about earth spell strengh: we can not say an offensive spell is good or bad if we dont realy know the damgae.
for the earth spell "name" it different from the others heroes, but its ok. (look at divinity original sin earth spell)
Divinity, Legend of Grimrock, Heroes... even an indie niche game like Mardek.
Not like it matters.
No vampirism and hypnosis ?
Werid :) Maybe you can buy it in a DLC, hłełe.
Dark Magic without subordination of reason - nonsense
I definetely expected to see the Puppet master spell and the curse of the Netherworld
same can go for obstecle spell of earth magic, those are missing. imo, they should be added as extra new spells before game gets released.
more spells, needed spells= problems solved.
this isnt really a hard thing, please consider adding at least 1 more spell for each schools.
I stated previously that I don't mind the number of spells they had in each school because quality was more important that quantity. But these schools have neither quantity OR quality! Many councillors have suggested much better spells than ones on offer here. It's as if they want to balance everything out so badly that they make everything incredibly weak.
Warrior will be more powerful than a magician? regretfully !
...not if there were some restrictions. There are, but may need some more, I guess.
+ one spell per level!
Wasp swarm (deal damage in XxX area)
Rock wall (creates a 1x3 rock on the battle field)
Petrification (turns target to stone for X turns)
Summon earth elementals (summons a stack of X earth elementals)
invisiblity (target becomes invisible for x turns)
Life drain (target creature heals itself x% when attacking for x turns)
Puppet master (takes control of target enemy stack for x turns)
Summon dark elementals (summons a stack of X dark elementals)
More important : more spell per guild level
I doesn't see the problem with that...
Just look at the magic guild in the previous topic : do you learn fire magic to your wizard ? So sad ! Even with the library to increase the number of spell, there is only two fire spell in your guild !
That is a big problem... magic heroes will have very few spell...
Conquer more cities, exspand and build mage guilds... it isn't a real problem compaired with number of spells.
Life Drain have vampires, haven't they?
Have you ever play a heroes (except for H6) ? XD
You don't take a city at every turn.
And in H5, there was already this problem, when there was a 5 level guild and 4 magic school. Now we have a 4 level guild and 7 magic school !
Why taking a magic hero who will only learn 3 or 4 spell with a great amount a skill point spent, when you can take a might hero which give passiv attack and def to your units and which have warcries that doesn't cost mana ?
https://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/skills-dark-earth-magic#55561d04ca01777b65b20122 for dark spells
https://mmh7.ubi.com/en/blog/post/view/skills-dark-earth-magic#55561b5dca01779938b2010b for earth spells.
One extra spell per level seems about right... but ¿what would they do in the expansion then? ;)
Could we reach an agreement, Ubi? We do not complain about the number of spells now, so you can have a small number to balance on time,
But then we want +1 spell/level via patch (or free DLC).
At least one more spell for each rank in each magic guild would be great. It is quite strange to use rare skillpoints to learn something, which helps you to learn only one spell.
Hopefully in the first datadisc.
Thanks, I'm not the only one who see this problem !
So I exspanded and inproved my list of spells tha should be added:
Grounded (target flying creature cannot fly for x turns)
Wind shield (target takes reduced damage from ranged attacks)
Thunder weapon (target deals extra air damage when attacking)
Summon air elementals (summons a stack of X air elementals)
Wasp swarm (deal damage to target and all adjacent creatures)
Rock wall (creates a 1x3 destructible rock on the battle field)
Petrification (turns target to stone for X turns)
Summon earth elementals (summons a stack of X earth elementals)
Invisibility (target becomes invisible for x turns)
Life drain (target creature heals itself x% of damage dealt when attacking for x turns)
Puppet master (takes control of target enemy stack for x turns)
Summon dark elementals (summons a stack of X dark elementals)
Well your spells make sense, they are useful and make combat more intense and interesting. That's probably why the devs have chosen not to include them
Grounded - too strong for 1st level
Wind shield - very good
Thunder weapon - isn´t this the GM of Air magic ?
Wasp swarm - good
Rock wall - good
Petrification - good
Invisibility - I think only Dungeon should have this but ok
Life drain - move to 3rd level
Puppet master - move to 4th level
Summon elementals is imo too boring and should be only 1 spell in prime magic that summon random type of elemental or it should be removed at all. It only blocks place for more interesting spells.
Don't want air elemental - creature recieves "flying" ability is better, and something currently missing in air magic since teleport moved to prime.
I like them, +1. Just goes to show how it's not actually all that hard to come up with good solid spell choices. Devs, you don't need to limit yourself to 8 per school there are so many good options.
I don't understand why it was necessary to remove mass spells and replace them with 4x4 area. This is while warcries are now affecting all stacks or at least several ones, like all melee or all shooters.
Summons are nowhere to be found. No elementals, shadow image is the only one so far. Though I liked this one throughout the series and in similar games, does it have a chance to survive a hit, like "incorporeal" ability already mentioned? If not, it might actually be less useful than it looks.
It is their idea to "balance" stuff and make it less overpowering.
And adding even more OP stuff elswhere in the meantime, right
You cant understand it - there is no logic in it. I dont think that this whole skillsystem took someone more than few hours of work to design. But they will be proud as never as its almost as awesome as H6 skillsystem.
With weakness and stone skin changed to affect attack and defense params from H6 percentages they are now not too dissimilar from warcries in effect. It remains to be seen which will actually be stronger or just more beneficial overall with this genius area of effect idea. Warcries have only one "disadvantage" - they last one turn, two with grandmaster. Buff/debuff spells seem to be set to 3 turns again.
J'aime beaucoup les sorts de ces écoles et surtout l'idée du sort d'aventure pour chaque école !
Franzosen und Russen...
Ich liebe die Magie der Dunkelheit!
Meaning "More Spells per School", not Ubi's "More Schools per Spells".
Sincerely, guys, but the train has left ......
#FIX CREATURE ABILITIES
You can always catch the train :)
train left , Energy (
It can easily be postponed like H6 has been.
RRick I really like you, but I like to be late for the tram )
Yes but they won't delay because they'll rationalize that its better to release a buggy product on time than it is to release a good one late.
1. spetsilizatsiyu interesting characters
2. I want the magic of the mind
3. ..... much more )) Remove legs from the necropolis ) etc.
) i want interesting hero specializations, more unit abilities, more spells, better skillwheel ... eh .. I want Heroes 8 already :D
I have a dream
that the next game will be Ubi-less.
shorter , already want to play in this miracle - 7 ))
,,,,,,,all waiting for a miracle -8 )))
Anyways, no blindness, no hypnosis, no defense decrease, no Confusion, no Franz?. Too few spells to make interesting, really. Combat Purge should be random for sure, no guarantee for success. Please change it if you want any fan of H5 to like even like it. Dark magic is missing a lot of gameplay elements for me. I'm sorry.
And no destiny decrease? Spells like Face of Fear are maybe new, but... you have a vision of what you are doing, haven't you?
I mean, I love randomness, but I hope the things you present to us are not random. Have you already tested it out, I wonder?
I just wonder how are you going to make it work and balanced :D
Blindness can be a Light-spell, and Frenzy a Fire-spell. Actually, it already was one in H3.
Frenzy should be fire magic, blindeness should be light magic, confusion was water magic in H3, (am I right?) maybe we'll get something like this.
Do you really believe you can see them in game just because you think they should be here or there? TIme will tell.
It is almost obvious to me that the current devs spend very little time on H5. A ture player would never ever ignore H5 specializations. This is impossible.
clearly one of the biggest fails
skill PIZZA is all they know...........................
I'm not sure they did anything with H5 at all. They said that this is basically a new team since the ones that work on Heroes games keep getting dissolved. First the H5 one because reasons and then the H6 on because of how poorly H6 went.
Despite them doing a few mistakes, I believe Limbic needs to stay and become the main M&M developer. This is their first Heroes game and they are bound to make some mistakes. They have potential, all we need now is time and good Heroes VII sales. And more spells. :P
Well if they fail big, there will be chance that there wont be a "new" Heroes game after H7. And maybe it is for the best that Ubi sell to someone else who clearly "knows" how to make a good game and treat it right if it comes to that.
There must be more spells! You aren´t really excited if you always learn the same spells from magic guild. In Heroes IV there are 25 spells felt for one magic school.
Quality over quantity.
Lion I completely agree! We deserve better spells, not this crap! Many classic spells missing, too many spells are alike, spell-schools aren't different enough. Devs plz put some focus to the game mechanics, don't just copy stuff around. Factions and schools need to be unique, plz fix them! Stop focusing on the graphics and put some effort to the game-play which is the main thing!
Ekohippi, above all there must be a balance. Not just between magic schools but between factions and classes too. I don't mind some simillar spells in two magic schools. Just keep in mind that some creatures immune to different magic schools. And if I can't poison a creature with some spell, I could try to affect it some other way. Agony for example. Less spells easier to balance. Beter balance — more fun. Fun game — good game. So, you better just wait for release.
For me it is - more spells, more fun
Balance is good. But if you follow the route of H6 and make balance the only thing, the game will not be fun. Some imbalance is good because it means you can have different specializations. As is, everything feels more or less the same.
More balance does not necessarily equal more fun but it can equal less replay ability if everything is over-balanced. As is, we have neither quantity or quality.
Look at the most popular heroes games. They didn't have perfect balance but are still enjoyed.
Yes, balancing is not about have everything which is balance but to always have something to be balance with your opponent. It's to you to make the good choice, but trying to balance everything just make the game redundant.
As in, you aren't always on equal footing with the opponent. At some points you will be stronger and at some you will be weaker. In H6, everyone was basically at equal footing at all times so no replayability. In H5 Stronghold wrecked everyone in melee but bombed at range. Dungeon had fewer units, but what they got was stronger if generally a bit squishy. Academy owned at magic and got progressively stronger units so stall tactics worked well for them because of creature artifacts.
I heard that H6 wasn't balance, principaly becaus most factions had many resurection spells, but stronghold and inferno had none, so they were weaker...
True, but if you look, no factions was better or worse at anything than any other faction. Only thing that altered was really how much you could spam resurrecting units.
Ok, thank you.
I give for Humble Bundle, principaly to get H2 gold and Clash of Heroes, but maybe I will try H6, just to see... if it work on my computer. XD
COH is good. Go ahead and give H6 a shot. Those who like it really like it and you should have all information before deciding on it.
Clash of Heroes. Should've been aware by now.
Have to agree with basically everything on this entry and reply posts!
this isnt really a hard thing, please consider adding at least 1 more spell for each schools. it will be highly apprecieted.
Devs need to work hard until release (otherwise we'll have more bugged game).
But that's the good idea for expansions.
That's not a reason to screw a game and it's fans over. Then delay it, i don't mind. I want a good game, with less bugs and problems as possible at launch. This will be hard to achieve within these 4 months (not impossible ofcourse, but highly unlikely that it wil turn out good).
Delaying of games is impossible after showing the release date.
People already paid money to gain the game in Semtember. And if they don't, it will affect Ubi reputation much much more, than in case of bad game quality.
You are wrong about that. H6 was postponed, even if it was originally planned to be released months BEFORE the release date, even.
Besides, I doubt they can ruin their reputation than they already had. Not just with this game, but probably others, like Assassin's Creed.
But the last delay was BEFORE pre-order.
What last delay? So far i know there has been no delay yet. Or are you talking about H6?
You sure you don't want a launch just like H6? I mean there is no way that they can properly beta test in 2-3 months (and i think it will only be 2 months since the last month will be all about getting ready for launch). If they really want to proper beta test it should be atleast minimal 6 months (unless the game really is perfect). And i don't care of they already beta tested internally. Thats different.
For sure, I mean Heroes 6.
As for H7 beta, 2 month - are more than enough. You can make even 1 year beta, but without feedback analizing it will be worthless.
If no one is analyzing feedback from beta. Then it is a failure as a beta. Same if no one gives feedback in the first place. Beta requires feedback to be given and reviewed. If it doesn't happen. Then don't have a beta. And 2 months is too little for a good beta. I've been involved in enough games to know this.
@Niwroc, it depends on game complexity and number/activity of programmers + testers + community managers.