Meh, not very impressive. The fighter and dragon blood skills seem rather unimaginative, increasing x primary skill by y isn't something that scales exponentially, I'd say they wouldn't be good in the long run due to having high level, but guess what, we are still capped to level 30. Enlightened Leader doesn't look that nice since it's active only in area of control. You, devs, said that you don't want to encourage turtling on battle map, but you are ok with turtling in your area of control?
85% of the fights happen outside your area of control anyway and turtling inside your town never seemed fun for me at least. Scholar and Eagle Eye are pretty much a classic, not my favorites but still imaginative, especially compared to fighter and dragon blood. I believe that Mentor is pretty OP since there's no cooldown or cost and there's no reason I should bother leveling other heroes when I can boost them all in an instant with free mentoring.
Master of Magic looks again redunant in the long run... if we weren't capped to level 30. You are going to level up all your spell skills at some point and it is useful only in early game, if it was something like being able to learn spells without having to learn their skill, like wisdom in h2-h3, that'd be useful, since you'd spare a few slots.
Town Planner seems OP for noive rank, it should be ultimate IMO, building twice in a town shouldn't something you can do straight from day 1, but something that is going to help you build towns faster in late game when it's more important to build towns fast in order to reach your current growth and creatures. Merchant seems ok, Foreman seems again rather boring since it works only in the Area of Control, maybe something like h4 mining that offers you resources every day would be better.
Alchemist and Architect seem ok, maybe alchemist should scale with either level or game time passed and Architect could be merged with Recruiter since they both reduce the gold costs. Now, Estates in this form seem alarming OP, I know it's ultimate, but imagine getting 2 heroes with estates, 30% is waaaay too much, maybe a lower precent that scales with hero's level.
Preemptive strike: perfect battle map turtling skill.
Maybe they are bipolar =D
They don't even know what they want, it's all part of the illusion...!
What about changing +2 stats for something more useful not only to early game. And btw no range penalty, spells etc. are more useful.
Enlightened leader - rather on novice rank +20/30% to exp gain, than this AoE crap, we are here to conquer the map, strike quickly not to farm on our own field.
Eagle eye, never liked that skill, waste of space
Town planner bit too strong for just Novice, it would increadibly boost the early game, Merchant, add at least 2 marketplaces, Recruiter rather growth?
>>You, devs, said that you don't want to encourage turtling on battle map, but you are ok with turtling in your area of control?
a very good question. i do really want to hear the logic behind this. seems like a backfire to me.
@ Cleglaw : there isnt any logic in this, there never was. They have just randomly put some perks and thats it. Same as with buildings in towns. Same as with hero specialisations or creatures in factions (or faction votes). There never was any logic, no reason to expect some. This game will be Erwans masterpiece named "How to destroy imortal franchise part two". Yes you guessed it correctly H6 was part one.
Nicely said, i agree with you.
They seem to focus too much on the area of control. Is the whole game based on the area control? :D
It's almost as much as you focus on spider spikes. They are everywhere :D We need diversity. The more diverse and unpredictable the game is, the better.
Dont forget the all over bonuses to flanking :)
Really bad because it is nearly useless in campaign - it is great only for your enemy, but not for you. I hope so there will be also some protect-cities missions, and not only conquere ones.
yeah i noticed that too, but i guess thats for achieving somethings in game design philosophy... i cant bring the puzzle pieces yet, but it looks like a important part of game. i hope those puzzles pieces will create something good otherwise this can turn many skills/abilities to a uselessness spot.
damn, another "all in or all out" style approach, this is getting more and more exciting (: im really curious how this game will turn out.
Wow, you really have decided to forget every good change you made to the series in H5, or what? Having a skill that does as it's only effect to increase experience is downright stupid - that's basically paying experience (skill points) now to get experience later, so basically you just delay your own progress. At least in H5 it also gave bonus skill points which actually made the skill have a point.
Agreed! some affect should be seen in combat otherwise they are only side kick abilities.
There could have been some effect regarding the logistics like an additional cannon fodder unit for free every combat(Free voluntiers) that vanish after every combat.An extra stack I mean.
Summon some ghost to mines maybe (which don't give experience maybe)
Economy is nice but a combat hero really makes too much difference which has to be compansated for by the enemy side.
These skill lack flavor
thats called late game bro.
i always pick that if can in early game, it collects much more experience then what you invested before. if you can handle early game with extra exp ability, then congratz, you will be really devestating in late game with lots of exp it grants to you.
simple mechanic, its not new either, but i guess your not a fan of it rather then not knowing how it works. imo its the best one to invest in first levels.
They way this game is developed is really scary. Other companies hire beta testers to test their product and they want us to pay full price to be able to test the game and help in development. This is just crazy.
Other companies hire beta testers, I guess it great mistake. The right way is to take money from beta testers. It's business Meme. :)
they dont need beta test , they need money from us and they try to get even dirty way . Balancing in this game right now none exist .
I see that they do is not beta testing. It is sale of demo version only. Demo version for money. Nice? It will include only two faction and couple of maps. Is it beta? It may be used for evaluation only not for beta testing.
I'm actually 100% sure that they will also test the game internally. As I see it: It's not like that you have to preorder the game. Beta access for people who do is just a nice give away. In addition: Dedicated fans usually make the best beta testers. However, of course they are cheaper than employing people to do testing.
>> Dedicated fans usually make the best beta testers.
Yes, but, I guess, only in case if that will open beta testing.
The real testing is done internally. The pre-order beta is just a demo with a different name. It's advertisement. Calling it a beta makes the demo players feel like they can influence things I guess, and it certainly gives Ubi the opportunity to have a large number of testers for the basic game mechanics, but it's nowhere near the only test.
Elle-One. Why demo is not free in such case? The best way create cool game is give free access to demo. For beta testers add more features to test. I guess.
It's funny, though. They talk about balance all the time, but many of the skills seem to be useless or unbalanced so much. What are they doing? Designing spikes again or designing?
Also spiders, don't forget spiders
Yeah, got the same feeling, but it's mostly laziness and choosing a soft option
what you mean about spider?
Sometimes it feels as if they pick the abilities "randomly".
it will be hard to justify all 36 heroes pre-selected skills set, and some lame specialization.. all up to Ubi logic O_O
I see, this is random mix of abilities. Recipe is: randomly take 60% of H6 add 20% of H4 , h5 - 10% and h3-10% by taste. Are you want random skills? Take it. :)
I wouldn't want my main hero learning any of these :/
Then what will you do if your campaing/scenario main hero'll has any of these by default? :-)
@guest Wont happen ever! And if they do it will be a verry bad idea.
It might happen, you'd just choose to not learn more.
She said by default, so i thought that she meant the skills you get at the beginning when you choose your hero. Or in case of campiagn where you have the campaign heroes who ar fixed. If they will have these skills as starting skills, then i consider that is bad. But if a campaign hero who is going to be a secondary hero would have it, i would not mind.
I would actually be okay with Town Planner being picked by main, since it is quiet good in the start of the game. Early town hall+.
To let us change our main heroes classes is one of the MOST IMPORTANT changes that should be allowed.
Small change for you (I don´t think so it requires much work to allow it), very important change for us.
They can't let us change hero class midgame, that would destroy their grand vision of forcing us into the same cookie-cutter each time. Remember: We can't have Knights with Dark Magic in Ashan (except in H5, but we don't speak about that one).
whoops i sense blind rage.
i will just say one thing: rpg games, look how they work.
@ Cleglaw : lolz ... tel me how many times did you replay any RPG game? 2-5 times? 10 times? Thats probably limit, play each class once or twice. Is this really the goal for homm game?
I do not want to have the knight using the dark magic (actually I would but it is not possible in this game). Now, I mean only the change between classes, not factions
Exactly, I'm hoping for an option to choose your main characters class before the campaign starts, nothing more. Maybe it'll be like H6 where you could create your own hero, although I would have liked to keep the original character's face and specialization there as well.
Also, I am looking at RPG games. Most of them let you pick your class, or at least customize it. Looks close enough to me.
Also this isn't an RPG.
I can't understand till now, why they don't take the skill wheel we saw in h5. It was very cool!!! Unique subskills for every heroe-class!! But maybe everything is indeed better as h5... we will see...
Antalayan > Yeah I got that, only quoted the Dark Magic example because that was the one they used themselves. But I agree, instead of having three locked Might and three locked Magic classes in each faction, we should have something more dynamic, like in H4: You start with a basic class, and then depending on your skill choices, you will develop into an advanced class which might then open some new skills to you.
For instance, if you start Knight but select a number of Magic skills, you could become Paladin, i.e. more transition towards magic, which might then open some new skills for you which were not available to the Knight class.
I want more jalapeño in my PIZZA, this looks insipid
J'aime beaucoup ces compétences, surtout celles liées au gouverneur. Les héros secondaires seront plus utiles que les mules des précédents opus !
But seriously, what are they thinking? It seems that 25% of all skills are going to be favorable for secondary heroes and normally useless.
And i have somehow more problem with it beeing called Paragon instead of Enlightment over anything else that seem like it is a problem.
Also why not for having to build for a 2nd time in your town increase the costs of the buildings. I think this way it's becomming less powerfull.
And maybe they should have to do this for other skills too to balance skills. To add something to make it a bit less powerfull, or make it only active for a certain time or something else. But this only shows how not creative they are. This is nothing new, and more or less a degration of anything else. Especially if we look at "paragon" and compare it with Enlightment from H5.
Also i think i am going to start calling this game Heroes of Meh and Meh, or Meh and Meh: Heroes!
Oh and i almost forgot, but i absolutely hate area of control bs. I mean it takes away some of the aspects i like in a Heroes games that are also tactics, but for some they are annoying. Such as capturing mines and harass your enemies, or to make them come out and capture them back so you can attack thier town, or you can try and catch the enemy hero before he can get back to it's town. It's something i also missed in H6. Altho sometimes this was annoying.
personally i would have done the same if i were the dev myself: secondary heroes/skills were way too undereffective. they can finally come in play now if they also implement them right.
name issue, i dont get. its not lige theya re trolling with names, "flying pigs" or something lol. just another word close to old one, dont see much difference and effect to game *shrugs*
i too dont get what theya re aiming with area of control mechanic, its life they are making heavy investments on it.
Well there is just not really a reason for changing names (and i think closing the old is just a argument that is not really great either). And i do thinkg Paragon and some other skills just doesn't sound right. Enlightment sounds more "smart" and fits with what the skill is supposed to do.
And i also starting to feel that flanking is going to be freaking annoying, but that is a bit offtopic.
@ Cleglaw: you want the game to look like H6? Easiest way of doing so is to name everything the same as it was there. But since H6 was disaster I really do not get why they try to mimic it if they definetly dont have to. Change of name is matter of second, ask anyobe who studied marketing what can bad name cause. Yes it doesnt influence gameplay directly, its just reminding you all the time that this is H6 successor. Not H3 or H5. Then wonder why people expect another disaster. Isnt it obvious?
Перевод на русский! http://heroes.riotpixels.com/?p=1421
Спасибо за перевод.
Paragon: Novice skills are kind of uninteresting. I always avoided these kind of skills in previous games. Scholar is especially kind of useless because a hero needs to be skilled first to be able to learn anything. The rest two novice skills may not make that much difference to make it worth spending points on them. Arcane Intuition is kind of similar to Scholar. These kind of skills would be more useful if learning some spells would be difficult. Otherwise, they won't matter that much, too.
Engligtened Leader is almost all right. You could just get rid of the town control limit. I am not sure how it works untill I test it, but the limit could make it not worth investing in the skill.
Mentor is brilliant. Basically, this is what we could see in H5. I really like it.
Master of Magic is a strategy to save skillpoints? I am not sure, but if you don't gain the abilities that normally give or would give you the bonuses from the skillwheel, I doubt you will have a hero that satisfies you in magic. It makes me want to avoid it, which makes it a bit useless.
Overall, this skill seems to be more useful for magic heroes. And the economy skills are basically reserved for a secondary heroes.
Master of Magic is a strategy to save skillpoints? I am not sure, but if you don't gain the abilities that normally give or would give you the bonuses from the skillwheel, I doubt you will have a hero that satisfies you in magic. It makes me want to avoid it, which makes it a bit useless. Overall, this skill seems to be more useful for magic heroes. And the economy skills are basically reserved for secondary heroes.
Why paragon and not Enlightment? Why you ubi do this? Renaming well established terms so game resembles more H6. You are taking most suicidal path you could posibly discover. Same icons, same town screens, same names and then you say to people : "No this isnt H6 ... its completely diferent - its classical heroes". Yes resources arent the same, yes skillsystem isnt classical, yes we have 7 magic schools, but LOOK - hero on the horse is moving across the map - this MUST be heroes!
There was "Enlightenment" in H6. Yes, it belonged to the Paragon-class, but one of the abilities therein carried this...enlightened name.
and yet almost no one sees the danger of Town Planner... fancy icons hide the details...
so far i swallowed the bad stuff as there were goid stuff... but clearly, the want to mix H6 and classic, thinking they can win back hc Heroes gamers....
wrongest idea ever...
ill check back at release but i guess for me this will be the same as H6...
sad.... so sad....
@ cgsilver : Town planer seems quite powerfull. In fact I like all economy skill perks, but I find it illogical to have on main hero and leveling up secondary hero (with fighting) just to max out economy seems rather flaw in design. They could came up with 3-4 skills suitable for pure guvernor hero which would gain experiance over time with buildings bonuses, not from combat. That would give much more sence to me.
dude whats up with this i dont get it, i mean i rather having old names to continue but it doesnt even change anything in practice? so whats up with that?
looking like h6 is an illusion if you really take it seirously. you once said somethings about ducks, that ducks is an illusion for you, ts not duck. it sounds like it, but its not. lol.
I would be ok with Luck being Luck (1-10), Enlighment being what it was and same with rest of skills.They may add some more perks, or boost some that werent that usefull or add more skills. They again did same thing as with rest of the game ... they simply replaced whole H5 skillwheel with H6-like one. No matter that fans rage. They see clear profits from H6 so they clone it on every oportunity.I will save my "I told you so" for later - when they will bilance H7 profits and will be wondering wtf
.. we did exactly as in H6 and this time we barely sold anything. Wtf hapened. Then someone in charge will stop looking on his profit excel and will open browser with shadow council and read few feedbacks, then it will hit him. He will summon whole creative team to the room and trust me ... you would not want to be in that room with him.
In order to unlock the potential of the proposed Abilities necessary SkillWheel (as in H5) NOT SkillPizza!
I like pizza though.
I had an awesome shrimp korma pizza just the other day, which was way better than H5's skill system. Your argument is invalid.
To tell the truth, it is neither a wheel nor a pizza. It is "supposed" to be a shield.
I don't know why these skills are commented so negative. For some hero classes they seem very useful, as they already have been in former heroes games (perhaps in slightly different form). It needs a different kind of personal gameplay to use these skills for one's own advantage. I personally like the paragon tree. seems useful to quickly build big armies.
I totally agree! But this is the Internet were people like to complain about almost everything!
So let me guess you guys started playing Heroes since H6? Because i am pretty sure this whole thing that Ubi is trying to create is looking like a pile of dirt and not the best Heroes game, that they said it was going to become. Look it has some great ideas, but this is far from good. Maybe gameplay will be a bit ok, but other then that this game looks bad. Unless you liked H6, you might like this game.
Yes, just blame the internet and the community... way to go
@RobvD84: Actually I started playing heroes since HoMM II. I personally am not a fan of the art style ether but how do you want to measure "the best heroes game ever"? It's a marketing statement that is not to be taken too seriously. When I look at the mess they made in HoMM 6, I say they did a pretty good job so far to clean that up and take in some of the wishes of the community.
oh and about gameplay: I'd say wait till you actually play the game and get the feeling. It's nearly impossible to estimate that on basis of some screenshots and demo-vids. a good game is so much more than just the look of the artwork, that's my opinion. I played some very bad looking games for years that even then took me in, because balance and feeling were do damned good.
Random skill option should be without classes and with acces to all skills with every hero, otherwise it doesnt make sense to play random.
agreed , (more classes=limited skills , single same class(h5)=access all skills)?
Or one Might & one Magic class with some preferences to skills, but i would be more for full free hero development. Lucky Master of Dark Magic in Knight suit can be interesting choice.