Why is too hard for developers to give us realistic graphic look? I understand 15 years ago, but now?! Is that laziness of developers? I am sick of this cartoon kido look! I want realistic stunning town. Its 2014, almost 2015!!!
Again - 100% agree with you.
In my mind there are three options why crappy town-screens:
1) Arrogance, they think they know everything so much better than the players.
2) Lazyness, they just don't feel like putting too much effort to the game. Maybe they don't get much royalties from sales, but rather the single set amount for making the game so no incentive to act either.
3) Both options 1 and 2 from above!
Even 2D TS can look nice. I liked arts for sylvan TS voting and some other people too...This picture in article really needs lots of work
@ramborusina is totally right.
I can't find any answer for steps like this. I'm really saddened by the state of that.
Those options could be the reasons behind a lot of things in this game. Like the transition to upgraded units.
If it was solely the second one then the Ubi should step in and say GET TO WORK. Even if devs don't give a damn about how it sells Ubi should...
Just 1 reason: Not enough money to do them.
Don´t be so critical. I believe that it is not the final version as they wrote:
As always, please keep in mind that all information in this website is work in progress and that some elements may change before release time. Moreover, this article goal only is to focus on main buildings but the game will offer more variety and options while upgrading your town so stay tuned for more details
Nevertheless, I hope so the final version will be more elaborate.
I believe this "work in progress" thing is here because they don't understand the community nor their desires about the game. We all have some different ideas but globally, we share the same vision about what's great and what must be improved.
Hard to make a good game if you barely know the previous ones !
Just hope they'll seriously consider what is being commented here !
Yes, you may be right and it may be the final version, but it is not as bad as you wrote. It seems to be at least better than H6 (for example, I don´t think that blue village and black pyramid with spider should be called haven and necropolis). I also hope so they will not stop working a few months before planned release date as Black hole during H6 development. I agree that if it is the final version, it is quite disappointing, but maybe they want to show us only academy city buildings.
@antalyan Actually,I think it's the same awful level as it was in H6 and it's very bad.They don't understand the definition of a city and complexity.It's a place with some random objects.No cooperation, empty, unnatural atmosphere. In H5 I looked at Academy town I wished to be there on the stairs, admiring the city. My fears are that they will leave it as it is now or only with a few changes when the whole project needs to be done again. And once again-it's not a professional art in my opinion.
I don`t like this cartoony style as well. I wish they would do the town screen H5 style and in 2D. That way we get the realistic feeling we want and it wouldn`t be so hard to make as a 3D town screen. And of course you would access the buildings easier than in 3D town screen and therefore make it more functional and not only appealing to the eye.
As I have already wrote, I believe (or at least hope so) that they only wanted to show us the building and they will change the main appearance to be more complexive. If not, I hope so the other sides of the game will be better than the graphics.
They did the voting thing, what they really should have done is do an age poll and see just how many 10 year olds are playing the ubi-heroes games. This is awful.
There have been two GREAT town screens in previous games - one was 3D (H5) and ones was not (H3). Both of these screens were so good because the buildings fit in seamlessly with the natural landscape. They looked like cities that were planned and intelligently put together.
In H6, the individual buildings looked great, but they appeared to just be tossed in the air and left wherever they landed. No organization, no reason to the rhyme.
Sadly... this town screen seems more like H6.
My thoughts exactly
Although, I should note that it is definitely an improvement on H6. It just seems too obvious that the city was designed building-by-building and then all tossed together rather than designed to be a single, cohesive city.
This concept looks more like something done for disney magic kingdom... I like it as a concept art. But I'm revolted if this will be the final town version...
100% agree with you! Wise words!
This is why I suggested that we should be able to put the building wherever we want. I mean click into a pre designed part and build it there, where you think it fits best.
Oh please not the Hall of Heroes D:
It would have been fine to bring back the tavern, and only recruit the heroes available. This would have been much more interesting than being able to recruit any heroes anytime...
Who's with me on this one ?
I'm with u!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah! This is not Warcraft!
Plus, they should've merged it with Thieves' guild.
Though I agree with you, I have no problems with the hall of heroes. Maybe the tavern could be an adventuremap building...
And I 'm with u also. Tavern is much better.
Mediczero : I think the opposite would be more logical --> to be limited inside the town but if you run in a hall of heroes outside you can summon any heroes you want.
Cosadj, I rahter think it would work like this:
The hall of heroes is like in heroes VI, but you can only recruit heroes from your own faction, while in the tavern would you could buy two random heroes, which is not only more powerful (as in a higher level) but also cheaper than the ones you can get in town. And you would also could buy tips in the tavern too...
Right, why not, but still it lacks the limiter & the charm of the tavern.
I mean, a city without a tavern !!? And instead they have some kind of temple ?
Plus what's the point of recruiting any hero you want on the map ? Recruiting a haven hero while not having a haven town isn't a good move in my opinion...
Lack of tavern only enhances the image that this isn't town, but simply a military outpost. Also tells me how much they loved h6 to even bring back hall of heroes rather than tavern, just to eliminate as much randomness of the game as possible. I didn't think they could even find anything more to take from h6 excluding the things they've already said no to, but sadly I was wrong on this :(
HERE COMES THE NIGHTMARE!
I was really afraid of this low-quality townscreen work. I was hoping they will do something with it but NO. Limbic does NOT learn from H6 mistakes. After beautiful and stunning concept arts of the Faceless memories, the Forest Sanctum, the Tree Island we receive THIS - A PIECE OF SHIT.
It doesn't fit the game climate, it doesn't look good.
Disgusting, awful, trivial, infantile, bad-tasted, ugly, stupid ideas, DISSAPOINTING.
For a person like me, the one who cares about the look and game climate it is just a horrible joke and a real nightmare. When entering the twonscreen after nice and realistic adventure map what do you expect to feel? Seriously Limbic? What taste is that? 5 years old child?
I would prefer 3d towns like Heroes 5, but the concept shown here is kind of good. And as they said, this is still work in progress. Maybe the final version will be 3d, or something better.
I think they showed just the concept art so we could know what to expect of cities.
I agree with the preference on Heroes V's town theme ^^; I also want to a realistic climate change when you enter the town. ;) But the heroes team barely listens..
there will be no 3d ;)
I actually kind of like the looks of it. It is more of a taste thing than just bad or good.
@Milets: They have already said many time that there will be no 3d town screens. Please stop asking for them. They have much better things to spend time and resources on that the town screens.
I'd prefer it too but there is no chance for it. And to be honest I really wouldn't believe it is still in progress. I'm almost 90% sure it will looks like that. The same with haven town.
I really hoped for a good art in this game. I was amazed by beautiful arts during townscreen votes. At least you like it... I am dissapointed and scared myself. My eyes are bleeding right now.
If there are reasons why we cant have 3D okay, but this looks horrible. Cartoonish, unrealistic and doesnt match the enviroment.
While don't like that townscreen climate at all I have one thought - mabe that's just Mages with their complete lack of taste? Just everyone showing up their wealth with everything they've got with no thought about the look of the town as a whole... That'd be pretty fitting and.. i can't really imagine Dark Elves done in similar way. Or even orcs... 0.0
Just have a look at Sylvan's and Dungeon's townscreens votes arts. Now compare it with the one above. Still good?
@blueraven I also fear how the rest towns turn out. I really hope they will be done with different style even if it creates inconsistency as this art-style is just awful in my mind.
Nah not as good you have a point there. But I still don't mind this cartooney and conflicting as it is.
@Raenus, I don't belive it's too much expensive and would take too much time to make 3d towns like H5. After all, they made it many years ago... with H5! And sorry, but I won't stop asking or hoping for it. Don't get me wrong, I kind of like the art concept. But it should be it. Art concept. The final version should be something impresive. After all, why the hell did we have to chose light and ambiance for Elfs?
This could be good graphic for mobile game, unfortunately this is not a mobile game :(
With this townscreen....the game will be destroyed! @@
I am afraid it's not about Mages - it's the artistic team bad taste OR - which I believe it is more true - someone who is in charge from Ubisoft/Limbic is retarded.
@blueraven9 if what you say it's true, now I'm dissapointed and scared too... :-(
I liked the drawing for it being a drawing, not the final version of the town. Hell, even H3 town was better, and that was way more years ago! (don't get me wrong, I like H3, but today we should have a game with way batter graphics).
Yes, it does certainly do look so, but I just don't get WHY someone would press for a graphic style like that. What is Ubis target group - 5year-olds? It's a strategy game for crying out loud!
So maybe it's just this faction (pleeeeeeease let it be so, the Force-That-May-Be...)
WHY THEY HAVEN´T USED THIS KIND TOWNSCREEN?! IT´S LIKE 10000X BETTER!!!
You are very critical person, I see. Even I believe that it could be better, I think that it is not as bad as you say. Nevertheless, if you don´t like it so much, I would recommend you to join Limbic Entertainment and show them, how should the townscreens look like :)
@antalyan I'm critical because I can't stand ruining one of my favourite games. When something is done right - I say it, when something is done poorly, I say it. If you want something in a good quality you need to fight for it. In my opinion it is very bad, not what I expected from professionals. As you said - I guess everyone would love to show them something and actually we present them our approvals and disappointments. Now we will see if they truly listen or just pretending.
@Matooob: that`s a great townscreen! That`s the style I want to see in the game! Realistic and fantasy at the same time!
Please stop making excuses for developers and protecting them.You give them too much trust at this moment and you can be very dissapointed later. It's the best time to be demanding and objective. It's the only way you'll be taken seriously. If you're not going to be like that you will be ignored again.I remind you that Heroes 7 is not charity, you will pay for it. We had the same type of townscreens in H6. We really deserve much better than that.
Just look at the concept arts from Sylvan and Dungeon votings. Aren't they nice?
I'm afraid that subtle modification is not enough to fix the full image above.You ask me why?What's wrong with this one? Very bad perspective, infantile projects - silver parapet is just a rectangular stone block with a statue or inscriber has a 'scroll roof', the style is not compatible with the game climate (and yes- we CAN say that because we've seen demo and monthl screenshots).
It lacks life in the city - would be nice to see number of houses growing with the city. Look at champions' dwellings - are they impressive for you? Arcane vortex? Somwhere far away, just few towers? Really? Or the Tear of Asha building?
All the buildings look very unatural. They are not compatible with the landscape. It looks like a patchwork from random blocks. No logic when it comes to location of specific buildings (Arcane Library - Magic Guild). And the game will look like a patchwork when you put together cartoonish townscreens with realistic adventure map. No consequences.
And one more thing - I've seen here some people saying that there is not time for fixing it nor money and it's better to put this effort into other important things in game. I remind you again! Ubisoft and Limbic are professionals and there is no reason to resign from basic elements of the game. If you have no money, no time just please - go away and stop making games. The product has to be complete. No one wants to buy low quality products. Am I right? Would you buy incomplete TV in the shop?
but the problem with your way is simpel, if you only complain and never tell if something is good then the companies get the crazi idea that its impossibel to make a game the fans will be happy about, and then they might think why try then. I personly think it looks great and that this still only i work in proces i think the picktur will get some animations ingame
I completely agree with everything you just said!
I haven't seen any comments that are making excuses for developers or protecting them. All I've seen are comments that are critical of the town screen so far, or some who like it (which they're entitled to do). However, the problem with most criticism is that it completely ignores what heroes towns have been like in the past. Your criticisms, like many others, can be levelled at many town screens in many different heroes games, It's apart of what heroes is. Remember, it's a FANTASY game.
Edit: I agree with blueraven9
@khan actually there have been plenty comments saying "I'm sure they'll fix it", "it's just art not actual screen", "it's not final" and stuff like that. Stuff like that is definitely protecting the devs, you can call it giving them benefit of doubt or what ever you want, but in the end it is same as protecting them.
@Zorko1990 I do not only complain. When I saw arts from Sylvan and Dungeon townscreen votes I was really really impressed! And I gave a lot of compliments for developers.
It's surprising you haven't seen them. You have to remember that it's 2014 now and we don't need graphic from 1990. That's why new games are created. In 2006 in H5 we had complex 3D townscreens. And now? It's ok, let it be 2D but please make an ART not a fastly drawn and reckless sketch
@ramborusina it's really nice to have a support from a nice and intelligent person like you :-)
One more thing I forgot - it can be realistic and magical at the same time. It's only about the style and quality. I want to see a lot of magic but in decent realization.
We don't just criticize everything, we also commend good work. For example the general attitude of the people here was very supportive when they revealed the Academy lineup and their concept art.
Again I must assert that it's our right to criticize heavily whatever we see as poor and shoddy work. This is what you get if you want community involvement. And again his is not a charity where we should just be thankful they are giving us a new game, we are buying it and making them lots of money.
blueraven, you said it all. Hope his post make to top best, so more people will realise it too.
i have to say i agree with you blueraven9,
Even though i said its not the final stage(wishful thinking that it will be adjusted) this whole website has been a mess since the beginning, sorry to say devs but we had votes changing between votings, updates as "time killers" Haven page is "updated" and yet we do not have this town screen update for Haven. Its very unorganized/planned! Even if you want our feedback (which is good) it should be better planned and presented!
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Finally someone who's not sentimental anime watching kid who actually likes this kitsch painted town.
Yes, I must also agree with @blueraven, unfortunately. That townscreen is simply bad and that cannot be explained by fantasy setting. Even in such setting there should be laws that apply to everyone and everything and magic should not make logic neglected.
I did compare this to some townscreens from old Heroes game. For me what I see here is on a similar level as H2 townscreens which didn't have such plastic toy-like buildings. Everything that came after H2 was better than this. Sry devs....
The idea of this townscreen is still good, i think if you remove
the cartoon style and some perspectives problems (ex: the silver parapet look really out of place and more like a statue not a dwelling...) it will already be much better (imo).
Your post here is way more detailled and you summarize what's the probs hope it will motivate
devs to do something about townscreens. :)
Maybe, they only wanted to show us the buildings and the final version will be better (it cannot be much worse than in H6 even I quite like that game), at least I hope so. As regards this website, it is the first game I see the developers are looking after their players and let them (or us) vote, what they (we) want. So, GOOD WORK on the website and on the game, but it could be even better.
@ptrsc even the ones from H2 are better than this one. Also, I think Heroes 1 town screens are the best of the saga. Why? Because they have PEOPLE doing things inside and around the buildings, and not just empty buildings.
@blueraven9 You`re actually right, you made me realise that giving some criticism is good for the game and that I shouldn`t keep myself from doing it when I see something I don`t like. And I agree that the cartoony set up of the town screen doesn`t go well with the realistic environment of the adventure map (the townscreens in H6 are ugly for me as well). It would be so great if they made them in H5 style and in 2D! That way the town screen would look gorgeus and it would be still simple to use.
In some previous titles, the towns would grow as the city upgraded. For example, a town screen with a village hall would have a smattering of huts, while a capitol would have dozens of houses dotting the landscape. This simple feature worked wonders to fill in the gaps in the landscape, and would make the usable buildings look much more natural in their placement.
Can we have something similar here? Perhaps some mana streams through the sky near where the magical dwellings are found? Etc etc?
Yeah I think that would be nice. The more I look at the picture the more it seems like empty military outpost than town since there are only buildings of "fuctionality" in there. They could at least add normal buildings("living quarters"/houses) to the background on the hills and make some routes/bridges from there to central.
Yeah, we need this back. That was part of what made H5 cities so epic. It wasn't just that the cities were in 3D, but also because the cities grew substantially with houses and extra buildings to the point where they felt like they were these great big cities which held the populations of great empires.
"will offer more variety and options while upgrading your town so stay tuned for more details!"
This could be a clue for what you said adambjpoole!
One can hope!! :)
Hello Councillors, it seems that a little clarification is required here concerning town portal feature. As explained before, this town portal does not reuse H6 mechanism. Here the spell only allows you to join the nearest city with the building. It is not longer possible to teleport from towns to towns thanks to this portal.
Thank you for clarification :)
Yeah it is only the 10000x time he said it.
Any chance you could open that up more? Will town portal require certain level for example or is it available for everybody like in h6?
OK, we thank you for the info and burnt it on the surface of our brains in order to age a crusade against anyone who will ask anything about Town Portal mechanics;P
Oh, right: is there going to be a possibility to choose a city to which one teleports with some higher tiers of related magical skill? As it was in H3? Yes, we do know literaly nothing about the skills themselves, but...
Wait, a crusade is coming...;D
Why not have NO guarenteed town portal system since that was just another bad idea made for heroes 6 that made the game boring?
What about those crosses? Did you decide to mix christian-like Haven and arabic-like Academy? :D
Can we also have a clarification about the hall of heroes: Will it use the H6 system or the more ancient one (taverns) ?
Personnally, i find the H6 system far too simplistic and irrelevant and prefer the more ancient ones
in H5 - the city looked better
а в гер 6 хуже ... вообще не было его ))
В 5 героях, вообще все города были великолепны, но город академии, наверно, лучший из них.
Мне в 5 гер все нравились.Тольк гномы тормозили поэтому стали раздражать -чисто из-за этого .А в гер 6 оч крутой у демонов был -с Асхой когда . Крутейший со змеем вокруг .
у Демонов мне тож замок в 5 нравился
В 5-х все замки выглядели великолепно. Ну разве что у гномов похуже было.
Please don't make rest of the towns looks like this. It feels and looks so artificial and dead(the buildings look like plastic toys for most part!). Nasty mix of cartoonish graphics combined with the original h6 town-screen style.
Also don't go crazy with the crosses anymore, you already use them in some haven units and in this town-screen, I'm sure that's enough christian symbols for rest of the game ;)
Course it looks artificial and dead, it's just work in progress. It will look more natural and lively in the final product.
Well now I kinda wish Inferno had won, just so we could put some more crosses in there too.
@ Exsul-Aeger : I would like to share your optimism, but if you look on H6 townscreeens you will perhaps understand that these could posibly be not that far from being complete. Its regress even versus H3 townscreen and I would even dare to say H2 townscreen. Only thing that improved is resolution.
@logical.dust, I'm just saying that even if the townscreen remains the same by the game's release they'd probably add extra details and effects so it would look more natural.
I'm not comparing the townscreens of H7 to those from other games, I'm just saying it's a little bit early to spit bile and piss boiling water, is all. The game isn't finished yet, things can still be improved.
Your right that's the whole purpose of this (gathering feedback) it is the main design but things will be adjusted. so lets wait and see and hope :)
That's why we need to express our outrage now rather than later, so that things can be changed before it's too late.
It would be extremely stupid of them to show us something that will be much better later on as you suggest, it's like making bad publicity for yourself. But again it's very unlikely that it will improve much.
Agree totally with @mkth and I suppose that adding some details here and there, a nice effect over there is just not enough to make this townscreen enjoyable. By far.
@ Exsul-Aeger : I am not nitpicking about details ... as a concept art its acceptable, but as a real town screen? Buildings should blend better to envirnoment - it looks completely artificial as 2 separate layers (background image + buildings overlays) and evidetly 2 diferent people were making each layer and third person was adding it together. Buildings look uninteresting - all of them the same, no creative ideas. Its like artist came to boss and first sketch is accepted as final ...
I made a quick sketch of how I think the Academy would be better...
The Silver Parapet is around the city inner area with several Gargoyles positioned by extension...
Not a single statue in a pillar...
Town Portal is at the spot where the Parapet...
Heroes now can teleport to the city and no longer need to jump a cliff out of a floating island to go on Capitol Hill or Hall of Heroes
The Fire Pit is the exit of fire cave, before the Golem Foundry...
This is logical, since the Cabirs repair Golems, so they are close now to their function
And if there is a fire cave, why Cabirs are not close to her?
Why Cabirs were between First Aid Tent and Marketplace?
I increased the length of the outer wall of the castle to give more sense of protection to the city...
I connected several floating islands with land bridges, so that Heroes and Wizards need not be flying from one place to the other or teleporting
I also took off the pen in the roof Inscriber...
I found it very strange and I preferred to just leave the scroll
And please, do not put buildings with doors on cliffs...
Several doors end up on cliffs in that Townscreen!
I imagine Heroes having to sneak carefully to not fall and die when they leave the Arcane Library or Capitol... Someone down the stairs of Thundercloud Coliseum and then falls into the infinite abyss
Now I made my contribution to the game... (4 hours planning, drawing and painting this)
I hope at least some of these suggestions will be in game, because this Townscreen is beautiful, but illogical if analyzed... It's just several buildings randomly placed on floating islands, with doors ending in cliffs and no bridges, forcing Heroes to teleport or fly everywhere in city
Not bad Tokusatsu, it looks at lot more consistent and logical than the current screen.
How long did it took you? I guess if you doubled the time you could have production version out of that sketch that looks better than the one that ubi managed to sqeeze to their budget.
Ah you already replied :) never mind then. Very impressive.
Great work! Makes more sense
Cool ideas :D Hope they implement some of those...
Hmm that just might be the best 2d academy town-screen I've ever seen. Very nice!
This kind of townscreen left us with the 3-D factions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Without 3-D don't wait this tonscreens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
completely different style. Better? Don't think so. It depends on how the game will look like generally.
Hmm... that's a great towns screen. They could keep the style they presented here, and do something more like what you have posted. That would be perfect.
This is the old chinese Heroes Online?
Overall looking at this townscreem it's safe to say it's really bad. There is almost nothing good that can be said about it. After reading comments is clear that most of us has exactly the same thoughts about it
- too carton
- too messy and horribly placed
- some buildings are inspired by russian buildings
- too many styles of buildings: inconstancy
- too crowded
- too childish colours
I hope that the developers they can take it to heart
hmm,, not really
I think it is how magic town should be
full of imagination
like what Conflux town in HOMM III
(or it is the combination of Academy and Conflux town in HOMM III)
The more I look at this, the less impressed I get. It's just so random and cluttered. Why are the marketplace, resource silo, thieve's guild, and artifact recycler all as far from each other as possible, rather than grouped in a "commercial district"? (Similar to H3) Why is the silver parapet randomly sticking out of the ground when it could make such a natural addition to the fort/castle? (Assuming, of course, that the fort is a prerequisite to creature dwellings.)
There's so much potential!
Similarly, we have the Magic Guild, University of Magic, Mana Core, and Arcane Library all far away from each other. Would sure suck to be a novice mage in this city who doesn't know how to teleport yet...
This town could still look really really good with just a bit of effort put into logical placements of buildings.
It would be clever from Ubisoft in a business point of view to implement 3D townscreens.
Note that I have absolutely nothing against 2D townscreens but I don't feel like I'm in the majority.
Well I think that this townscreen is really great, but only below to heroes V's 3d townscreen...
Uninspiring and unrealistic imo. Where does the townfolk live? Why are all the buildings lined up akwardly on each their island. I agreed going 2d over 3d, but this looks too amateurish imo.
When have heroes towns EVER had a place for townsfolk to live?? Or for that matter were realistic? lol. Your criticism is uninspiring.
Khan, I would be careful about suggesting that Heroes fans here have short memory...
Both H3 and H5 had numerous static buildings that would appear as the town was upgraded. These static buildings are ostensibly where the town folk in this comment would have lived.
As for the realism, I'll agree that this is a pretty subjective criticism. Sometimes realism is nice, and sometimes high fantasy is nice. But this town screen does not really gel with style that the rest of the screens resemble.
GIVE! US! 3D!!!!!!!!
As they told us hundred times, they will unfortunately NOT give us 3D screens even if you will shout or plead them. I think so it could be (even without 3D screens) really good game though.
THEY! DON'T! HAVE! ENOUGH! MONEY! FOR! 3D! BUT! IF! WE! ALL! WILL! BUY! THE! GAME! THEY! WILL! PROBABLY! ADD! 3D! IN! THE! DLC!!!!!!!!
so don't worry...