I don't really care what they call them. Just happy we are back to multiple resources.
I second that notion!
:) Happy, but please change the name of one of the steels
my suggestion goes to the "dragonsteel". =]
Yeah!!! The "Flamegold" of Dark Messiah was great!!!
Seven resources = more variables, which in turn means more variety and extended interest in the game.
Good choice here.
yes, that is one spot they went wrong in VI, only 4 resources. big mistake
Please remove area-control tactic with Fortress defeating. It was really nervous in H6. I prefer old days, when you should defeat every mine for getting advantage. It was an idea for creating several heroes, which gone now, because you only need 1-2 heroes to defear fortresses. Not interesting.
U can capture mines in H6 via a skill that u can give to ur secondary heroes or if u leave them on the resource point. Witch allows u to go for multiple heroes.
I cant stress enough how annoying it is when ur in a tight game and ur army is fighting Ai/player red, and u have a troll AI/player at the bottom of the map stealing ur shit! And its so annoying to need to go back and constantly retake old lands!!!
Area-control makes sure that no enemy goes by and takes some of your mines and then you have to go and take them back. i do hope that you can capture enemy mines by putting in a garrison in H7 though
@ denisa016 : dude you should not be playing strategic games if you can not defend your teritory properly.I have to agree however that if you only played H6 that problem emerged naturally due to fact that all heroes moved same amout of squares (more or less) and it was impossible to catch any enemy hero.It wasnt that problematic in previous heroes. So what you pointing out was just another design fail of H6. Area control is dumbing game logic too much, but my opinion is worth nothing as it seems
Relax i played H3 and H5, and u cant possibly split ur army(unless ur dominating or playing 1v1s) to cover multiple entrances to ur kingdom properly!
A: U give to many units to a secondary hero and the AI might beat u or ur secondary hero gets eaten alive.
B: U have heroes with 1 core creature, enemy has the same, if he gets 1 turn boom fireball u lost.
C: Im sure u dont play 8 player maps, cuz u would understand! Impossible to defend if u have large territory.
@ denisa016 : well yes, thats why there is teleport and town portal, however if enemy kills your hero so fast, it doesnt help u all that much if it was in town. Also I agree there should be some defensive buildings to counter trolling 1peasant heroes taking mines, but not control zones - that requires no effort from defending player at all. You should have something to counter it which you have to build - lets say some mine blockade - takes 2 turns to take your mine, or something.
@ denisa016 : and you are right ... I never played too large maps, AI was turning ridiculously slow in H5. In H3 there was option to choose in which town you want to town portal, which helped a lot and also you had 4x teleport if you were expert air magic. It was almost bit imbalanced, but better balance could solve such problems. Lets say if you could build on map some tunnel or portal altar which would allow you to travel between 2 map points. But please no area control ...
Mines arent always close to ur town like in H6, tp back wastes 2 days. Retaking everything vastes more days, and when ur done with that ud have another troll npc or player show up on the other side of the map to steal ur stuff.
U waste too much time in H3 and H5 to go back and recapture ur mines. They can make forts have no walls or lvl 2 walls. Plus all u need to do is take the fort and every mine gets under ur control.
It saves time! And a heroes game takes a lot of time to begin with!
@ denisa016 : dude you are doing something terribly wrong, I never had such problems, its not like there is completely open space and enemy coming from everywhere. And I suggested there already 2 mechanics which would help even if it was a problem. If there will be area controll, you will not even care about resources, because why collecting mines when you can just atack town. Game will loose adventuring aspect. And if you want save time I would recommend not playing games at all. :|
Yes that area-control stuff was unnecessary. I'm not sure what was the goal of introducing that system.
@denisa016 I think having one super powerful hero was just your preferred way to play the game which carries an obvious downside: you can't control your territory. I'd rather have a game where this indeed is a strategic choice you have to make. Do you want an uber hero that can only be in one place? Or do you want to dominate through control and resources?
Who cares about the ressources names.. Thank you for bringing back the 7 ressources ! It is a core element of the strategy, and in H6 was a disaster :)
Пусть многие сочтут меня еретиком, но новые ресурсы мне нравятся больше старых. Во-первых, вырезанные ресурсы были взяты еще в доисторические времена, и я сильно подозреваю, что выбрали их «от балды», а дальше просто не меняли по привычке. Во-вторых, ценность новых ресурсов наконец-то объяснили с точки зрения лора. Я, например, до сих пор гадаю, зачем эльфам могла понадобиться сера, а оркам — ртуть.
Обыграть использование любых ресурсов в лоре можно, но проще было поступить так - и количество вернуть, и сразу од лор подогнать.
Так или иначе, целый _карьер_ серы выглядит, по меньшей степени, нелепо. Более нелепо выглядела только «шахта» по добыче ртути. Эта проблема была во всех героях.
По мне, так происхождение и необходимость ртути я не понимал ни разу еще со времен вторых героев. Так что тоже рад появлению новых (да, для простых смертных - фантастических), объяснимых своим происхождением и необходимостью ресурсов.
Ртуть традиционно используется в алхимии. В отличие от реального мира, здесь алхимики действительно могут добиться чего-то кроме как насмерть отравиться той же ртутью.
Проблема в том, что у орков нет алхимиков, и быть, в общем-то, и не может. Они вообще позиционируются как «антимагическая» раса.
Good job in revamping the rare resources and weaving them into the setting.
I'm glad there are more resources again, but why overcomplicate it? Why not go back to Gold, Wood, Ore, Crystals, Mercury, Gems + 1 brand new one?
Well, we had Sulfur too, before. So, it's the same count.
I like the new resources. Fits the Ashan lore perfectly.
I would appreciate classic resources too.
No it doesn't fit, especially since H5 already has the "original" resources.
I can hear the Heroes 3 fanboys crying already about how they ruined everything, even though the only thing that's really changed is the names of things (and the fact they've gotten too old to enjoy anything new).
Well those resource types were in all heroes series exept H6. So you might also include H1, H2, H4, H5 fanboys. Besides ubisoft claiming game will be for fans, which kinda contradicts with what are they doing. Trust me on this ... if ubi will change ashan few times like this ashan will be shallow and noone will care about it. Its not about enjoying something new, its about continuity. Adding new things is ok, but replacing old ones which were not bad at all is just stupid.
lol, I have to agree with you. I'm so happy that we'll have more resources (back to the 4:2:1), but people prefer to whine about something...... this piece of wood is too brown.
About the names, just a change in the "dragonsteel" would do. But that's a minor thing, really.
Your excessive pessimism is not healthy.
Also to mention ... ubi already know what is successful formula, you must be blind to not see that fans want more of H3 and H5. What ubi is doing, instead of improving successfull formula it is changing formula to something else. Which can turn out to be good or could turn out to be disaster (as H6 was). Why risk so much? What is reasoning behind it? Are the benefits of those changes so great? Are people that shortsighted to not see that these changes are bringing nothing "new" in fact?
and btw, to complement my post above, I'm also an H3 fan. But I agree that people whine way too much.
@ lucassvc : Yes and being stupid is dangerous. I however fail to see reason why you pointing that out. Is something I said pessimistic? Perhaps you would consider it as realism if you thought about it little bit more.
@ lucassvc : well If I am given the oportunity to say something I will minuswell do it. I am trying to help. But If I am not welcome here, 1 post from ubi team is sufficient for me for being quiet forever.
@ Man, read your posts again, you are creating drama about a simple mineral name... Just relax!
I can understand you didn't like it. But why can't we just make a suggestion to the developers in a decent and polite way? I don't understand all this bitterness.
@lucassvc : which one? Well this is not only about resources. After H6 I have quite many reasons to think that HOMM will be ruined again. Also I do not like changes for sake of make change without any benefit, because it make things confusing. Have you ever designed some UI elements? I am not being rude or am I? Saying complimnets is comforting and all, but that does not help developers at all. Critical thinking is what helps, which is what I am doing. Sorry that is sounds pessimistic to you.
constructive feedback = good
unnecessary drama and bitterness = bad
That's all I was trying to say. ;)
@ lucassvc : erm was any of my posts not constructive? I think I am quite precise on the point which I am trying to say. I am certainly not bashing... am I? I also try to give reasonable arguments, but with only 500 letters it is quite hard sometimes. And if you feel that I just make drama and I am being mean for no reason, then I am sorry. I am not trying to be mean, I am trying to save what is left of HOMM ... as I love that game and feel sorry for what is happening with it.
You ppl claim "fanboys" are whining, but i think some of these points i can agree with. Ok it is great that these 7 resources are back, but why whould you change it that much? And i understand logical too with the H6 problem, i don't really want a second one.
I appreciate the authors want to shake things up a little, and are experimenting with new resources (while still keeping the classic 4+2+1 setup).
I can't help but cringe at the names and descriptions of the four rare resources. The names are not memorable and indiscriminate and the stories/descriptions are just ludicrously 'out there'.
What's wrong with 'normal' rare resources like sulphur or gems?
I guess they were going for an epic feel of discovering a new rare resource and using it in ur kingdom!!!
Ok, well who cares their resources mined by peasants or goblins, they dont need to sound "epic"!
But i have to admit it does have a cool-ish sound to their names, and the mines look amazing!!!
Lol yes, names are completely messy: 2x dragonsomething and 2x somethingsteel. Mines look good, but original mines could look just as good if same amount of effort was given.
keep it simple!! the classic way is the best!! wood, ore, gold, gems, crystals, sulfur and mercury!!!
I'ts called KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid :)
I don't really care what are their names, I'm just glad that they have multiple resources like H3.
I am very happy that another of the disastrous design decisions of VI has been reverted in VII.
It is silly however to not just go back to crystal, gems, etc... Picking new names and look adds nothing at all to the mechanics and distances VII further from the last good heroes game V. It is clear they are willing to go pretty far in erasing VI from memory but are still way too reluctant to just make heroes Heroes again and just pick the same mats as the last real heroes game, V, had.
the H6 design with just crystal as a rare resource was not a bad design, it was just that people cant accept new things. with only 1 type of rare resource, there are more fights about 1 type of resource than when there are 4. that way, abilities like sabotage mine is way stronger and have a point of being used.
i do agree that at start you hate that its just 1 rare resource, but after a while you love it. H6 itself is a Heroes game. you just act like WoW players from vanilla atm.
@T0uching I do get what you mean, but you can apply the same thing even if there are more rares. Each team has basically focus and secondary focus on certain materials like Inferno with sulfur and mercury for example.
Having more rares and requirements makes you try different strategies as you might not get the resources needed for building x so you gotta take y sometimes instead. Having only single rare-type made building towns up a lot easier and you could easily pick the buildings you wanted
@ T0uching : what you mean after a while? You mean you actually managed to play that game more than a while? I could not do that. And to the point ... it is not bad design, it is just worse than more resources. If what you say would be right, then gold and one resource would be sufficient. Exploration aspect of game would be totaly lost thou. Economy aspect is part of HOMM formula, I do not understand why ubi so desperately trying to change everything. I wonder how will final product look like.
@ T0uching : I would also stop at this your sentence : "People cant accept new things". You are actually true about this, it is fact. Which is exactly why designer should not introduce pointless changes, but only ones which are exeptionally usefull. So which is simpler ... a) change the people b) make game that people loved before. It is naive to think that people will simply change because H7 is here. That would require the game be exeptionally well made in all aspects ... thats a bold goal.
It is also not about that people can't accept new things, that is for the most part not true. It is about that Ubi tries to change things too much to make thier own label on the franchise. If you look at the whole franchise you still see 3DO, more so than Ubi. Ofcourse people can grow on changes, but this is something that doesn't need change. Unless they really convinvce me, but i don't see that happening.
yet explore you have to, otherwise you lose the game, you need the economy. i have not said that more resources is a bad design either. i am just saying that learn to play with the new changes. I played H6 and it is a great game. The factions are more balanced than any other Heroes i have played. and i have played II,III,IV.
To the point of changing. They have to evolve the game. Otherwise it dies. why do you think WoW is not the same as it was in vanilla? the foundation is still the same.
The economy is still a big part of H6 if you didnt know. If you wont find that Crystal mine, you got 3 choses:
1. take enemies( can include death of your army)
2. Market ( expensive)
3. cut the enemies crystals
also both might/magic heroes are balanced aswell.
@Ramborusina, i can tell you that saying that having 1 resource is easier, is not true. You gotta explore for them in H6 since they are mostly hard to find and once you find them. you gotta keep them close, otherwise they will get stolen.
@ T0uching : how many multiplayer games did you play? I never played any heroes vs any stranger cause it is too long for that. I only played lan games with friends or hotseat ... mostly singleplayer, so the most important thing on H6 (balance) is completely not important. And whole game design suffered for that. H6 was not finished game, read about why black hole went bankrupt, then you will start to understand why game was so terribly buggy and why even today cursor flicker ...
@T0uching : also I do understand that exploring is important because of winning game.. but in previous games it was driven more by curiosity, what will I find if I go here? Each turn you revealed something new, this is completely missing in H6, you only could find mine which is controled by castle which you could not take ... so whole game was about massing army and then 1-2 fights. If you like it good for you, It was completely wasted money for me.
@T0uching:anyway... whole point is that If I want to play diferent game I would buy diferent game, but hereos had its charm which is now getting lost slowly. Its not about geting used to something. If they dont make what I like I will not buy/play it, because I do not want to change .. why should I? There are plenty other fun games which I can play without changing myself... this is only good to loose customers, but I am sure ubi has it calculated. Why heroes isnt on top sales list of ubi games?
@logical.dust, sure man. it was buggy when it was released, that is true. But not today it always works for me and i nearly always play Heroes with friends.
But to make a game that is balanced and yet every faction is very different, that makes it pretty awesome. let me give you an example: heroes 4, necropolis dominated if you got enough of vampires and then necromancy to increase them by every fight, this destroyed some parts of H4 for me. H2 have some similar problems(still necropolis).
Exploring in H6 is the same for as you describe it. me and a friend always explore everything on the map. not because we have to, but because we want to.Hmm the small-castles was a good thing, in my opinion.When was the last time you actuelly played H6?. it seems to me you only tried it for about 3 times then gave up because you are so into about the bad things(in your opinion)that you forget to notice the good parts of it. but anyway, no matter how H7 will turn out, i will adapt.
@logical.dust, changing and saying " this is not like the old Heroes versions" are 2 different thing, i am not saying that you should change. i am saying that you shouldnt hate on something instantly when it isent like the old Heroes, instead give it a try without having the same though("old things are always better"). but if you like .i would rather discuss this with you than on here. xD this thread can get big
@ T0uching : well I uninstalled it very quickly you are correct about that (could not stand it) ... right after my 70 champion units got killed by 30 core units in castle. If someone talks about balance was good in H6 i cant disagree more. I might have played some old bugged version, but overall game was so diferent that If I knew it before I would never preorder it. Then I read about black hole getitng bankrupt and everyhitng begun to give sense. It was terrible development managemnt from ubi
@ T0uching : and despite of over simplification, that game was actually so hard to play for me that it was not fun I was used to have at heroes games. I gave it 2-3 shots If I remember correctly (was long time ago). What I say here is result of my about 2000+ hours of gameplay experience I have with H1-H6. I am trying to be most open minded as it gets, but some design choices are so diferent from what would I expect that I simply have to say something.
@ T0uching : Its not that I do not like change, but I love heroes for what it is. What is happening with it right now is so drastic that it makes me sad. People who want redesign everything are not true fans of franchise in my opinion (why would you want to redesign something perfect?). Evolution is important but as I already said ... game is evolving to some other game rather than to better heroes game and thats what bothers me. Ubi may find out that eventually I hope.
_Now talking about the crisis of BlackHole, was rather a large management and administrative failure of Ubisoft, however everyone who worked in HOMM VI devoted precious time of their lives in great innovations.
Heroes V is a classic game, that broke important questions in gameplay and its legacy should remain in Heroes VII. But build the future without recognizing past glories is stupid.
Regards to all!
_Well I read numerous comments here, really respect what logical.dust, RobvD84 and T0uching think.
Personally I am nostalgic about the resources, I would like to see innovations in the game but not in classical aspects like these.
About the balance stuff mentioned here, there was never a real balance in any of the Heroes games.
@xixo78,Ofc you shouldnt ignore what was good in the old games. but changing the game doesnt mean that its bad either. As long as the core of the game is there. And also, i see you havent played H6 that much if you say it is unbalanced.
@logical.dust HOW THE F did you lose 70 champion units against 30 core ?xD.either your hero was worthless lvl 1 with nothing and the enemy had maximum or something or you must have made a big mistake. but i tell you.. dont hate the game, i still play it and it is balanced.i do agree at start it was unbalanced at some parts (light magic ftw). but many of the tactics i learnt from H6, works in most of the heroes. i think you just have to learn new tactics, because i had to do that.
@T0uching, to answer your first reply : your argument in favor of the 4 ressources is word by word Erwan's failed one. In reality what happens is that you rush for them and, that's kind of it. I got bored everytime I played H6 (the game I played the less of all), and I was good. I just find it utter fail lacking too many contents of a game.
7 ressources is just richer on gameplay, depending on your needs, you won't look for the same thing.
And btw, saying H6 is well balanced or bugfree is just lol
@T0uching : well he was in castle and was casting that invulnerability spell on some marksmen in tower, I actually had big army as sanctuary. I do not remember it precisely (was long time ago) ... I might have won it and lost only like 40 dragons, but I certainly wasnt expecting to have any causalties (perhaps few) and in the end whole army was totaly decimed. That was my main hero and he killed with almost nothing like 60%+ of my army. At that point I got feeling that there is only 1 tier in H6
@GalaadeHaut let me guess.. you started the game, played it and ended up dead against the bot? and then you said that the faction that the bot played was OP?.the only thing that is OP is Power of the horde from Stronghold which increases its damage by the size of the army.THAT IS OP.but you only get that in late late game.since it is blood rep at max and It is also might in a nutshell.bad at start, strong late
and about bugfree - never said.i said it worked with no problems for me, not bugfree.
@logical.dust aaah!castle fights, i think there was 300. not 30 xD. saw that problem in early release, it showed 30 and missed out 1 zero i think, when they're in that turret. But the enemy hero might have been might aswell.that way range dealt more dmg.but a champ unit in H6 feels weaker than in the other heroes.meaning that rushing for champ is a bad idea
but i can agree that early release had some balance problems (retribution area, 100% dmg return to all enemy creatures, nerfed to 30% max).
The more I look at the new resources and read their lore, the more I grow to like them. I know a lot of people prefer the "classic" resources, but these feel a bit... more. Maybe it's because of the lore, maybe it's because they sound practical in-universe - at least in the sense that stuff can be built or clad with the stuff; at least, more so than things like "gems" and "mercury."
But why does it have to change when the resources are not the problem or are one of these things that works? I agree that with these names and lore they can do more stuff maybe, but it doesn't make any sense if in the timeline we go back to the original resources. I need more than this than to be convinced about these "new" resources.
I don't really see point in changing the rares either... Heroes V is roughly 100 years in future and they've changed all resources? I'm glad they scrapped the single-rare from h6, but this is just pointless change in resource names to me. Making them all so "rare" I presume is how you explain that they will all be gone in 50 years and they found sulfur, crystal, gems and created mercury...?
@ramborusina if you played M&M X that the resources which we gona have in HoMM VII gona be replaced by classic ones cause they run out of them in future.
@iWellplay I haven't played M&M X. I just said I presumed they run out, being so rare by reading those texts. It was just an educated guess on my part that you confirmed.
@ Kimarous:they could made up same interesting lore about classic resources,also changint it slightly is one thing and changing it completely is another.Besides silverlight looks alsoms exactly as dragonblood crysal and sounds almost same as dragonsteel...it will be confusing. 5generations of game this was constant and ubi believes that they can "improve" something which is already well done.Was this requested by fans?They should stop complaining about low budget as they focus in wrong direction
good work! I like the new resources
Good idea to go back at 4 rare ressources. Rename it ? Why not. It won't change everything but it's refreaching !^^
Dragonsteel??? Why not the "Flamegold" of Dark Messiah??? ;)
I disappointed here too :(
Casue Dark Messiah happens like 115+ years later so Flamegold is not so common yet.
In Might & Magic X (575 year) dwarves digged Flamegold and Shadowsteel in Vantyr mountains. So it was common.