Master Architect: So... We have a wonderful and strategic place to build a city: lone hilltop, mountains on the one side, river on the other, gorge on the third and a waterfall... So, what we should build first?
- Nah... We have prefabricated buildings already. We will ask our flight brigades to transport them here and then to drop them from the sky. We will save so much time.
Now... this rock on waterfall... it looks like a great place to build a cathedral.
- But master, won't it fall down with time passing? You know of course about erosion effect?
- Don't worry, magic will keep it in place. Of course mages could dispel this effect but I'm sure Angels' magic is non-dispelable.
- Master, what about fortifications? Why we only desinged walls in front of castle and not around whole city?
- Money, dear boy. We spent nearly all money for this huge and wonderful Elrath's Statue. Isn't it glourious? Besides, Angels and Elrath himself will protect us.
- Master, we forgot about common people housing! Where would they live?
- In cathedral, praying to Elrath, where else? You don't need places for common folks to live or farmlands... Our cities don't need this kind of... non-glourious cityscapes.
@Avonu Thats because you dont understand. ;) This is a conceptual art from some hardcore anarchist person. He is sending a hidden mesage from this picture- Screw the rules! Create your own!!!
Just... perfect. You should get like 100 upvotes. It's been an hour and i'm still laughing.
Haven't laughed so hard in a while XD
Don't forget the Town portal outside the walls in the middle of nowhere
Laughed so hard! This dialogue is really amazing :D
And don't forget the hall of glory!
The swordmasters are skiing to go to town!
True story. Architect is very intelligent. He should be in parlament xD +1 ro your comment.
sad thing is that some people actually think like this.
this and that and whatever will protect us...
After looking at this TS a couple of times. I decided to see if i can change it a little.
What do you guys think?
The Town Portal inside the Walls... The Walls around whole Town...
Angels' Building in the sky... Houses... Houses... Elrath in far distance looks better...
Great job!!! =D
C'mon devs... We all know you can do better...
We can do, so you can do too
omg this is sooooo much better !!! now it makes sens and it looks like a really city, great work, kudos to you ! I hope everybody could see this, especially Ubi-nox ;)
everybody please up vote @Lawmakerex1 post so devs could see it !!!!
There are some little details that can be improved like adding roads, changing the place of Cathedral insdead of bricking the entrace up :) maybe darker picture would fit better the Wolf douchy, but devs should see this, and get some inspiration or ask for help, its amazing really.
some towers in distant walls may improve this more. also you can use some farm fields to enchant some houses and create a clearer view. streets, the walking experience should also be reworked, walking on grass doesnt seem right. maybe grey ground lines to create street?
i have one advise on colors topic, it doesnt need filter, it needs contrast!
sharp shades and some sharp sunny facade! stronger blacks! stronger lights! both of them to use in details. this way buildings and perspective may shine even far better. im not sure how it can be done with pc programs, but i think a hand drawn version can show this really good.
btw what avonu said makes more sense:
"I think the best place for it would be on the top of hill behind capitol..."
because, this way even if it feels right, it stays outside of town, we need it inside... as a glourious statue-like-building on top, just behind capitol.
overall... really great improvement. upvoted!
Change the lighting as well, its way to bright, and the angel building should be bigger, great work so far!
Great work! Congratulations!!
Looks awesome! You can combine that with the toned down version of GalaadleHaut , add some lightning effects and it will be perfect!
I like this version much more! The first pic feels very clunky - kind of like a town that wasn't finished or planned out well.
Main points I like about this one are the walls, civilian buildings (brings back memories of H3 TS), and building placement.
The corner where town portal used to be could be used to regain a bit of the all important real estate though.
Give Us Better Townscreens!
Even if hastaghs were overused recently. I must fully support this.
hell, i hate those tagging shits, but im with you on this one. this thing seems out of control.
These tagging spam posts annoy the hell out of me. However limbic's towns annoy me more.
- Archer's tower in the middle of the city? Justicar's tower on the edge? Really?
- Ultimate building looks stupid, like a childish painting.
- Beast den with a nice roof and perfectly habitable for humans?
- Don't see how SwordMaster building relate to SwordMasters at all.
By all means, can you put more heart into it please? Thank you very much.
Fully supporting, especially the plead.
Also, similar architecture from both H5 and (especially) H6 is leading to boredom.
I hope the next Heroes game will be on a new continent instead of Thallan so we can see some new approaches to the factions.
Wow! Sadly this is terrible. How is it that H3, that came out over 10 years ago had better townscreens?? It just seems like everything it just plopped in with no thought to where it should fit. i.e. the 2 champion building are just laying around the outskirts, where a more proper place would be up next to the capitol. When you look at the towns in H3 you can tell that a lot of thought and passion was put into making them. Now they just put things where ever they will fit.The passion is gone. :(
Seems like they absolutely don't care about it. And that is simply surprising taking into considerations how many people talks about how great townscreen looks in previous Heroes. Have they ever read any comment regarding townscreens
Please keep in mind that all visuals and elements are work in progress and this until the end of the development! This article only focus on main buildings of the townscreen but the game will offer more variety and options in final version so stay tuned!
Khan, I wish we could all be so certain. After about since the release of the Academy town screen being followed by an avalanche of criticisms - often citing the same problems - I have yet to see any response from the devs to reassure anybody. On the contrary, we have now got a second town screen with a repeat of those very same issues.
I'd like to think that they're paying attention to these comments. There is just very little evidence of that. "Work in progress" only reassures for so long.
@adam and Darioio
I completely agree with you!!
This may be a "Work in Progress" but its going to take more than simple visuals and elements to fix this. These screens need a serious overhaul, which I don't foresee coming. They've already said that they don't have the budget to do 3D screens so I highly doubt they have the budget to scrap these and start anew. They obviously don't think T screens are important to the game and it clearly shows in their outlined presentation of them. Its Sad
perspective seems like twisted. enterance way seems just gets interrupted with marketplace, which is wrong in city planning. the bridge shows us a direction but it breaks as soon as you walk several meters.
nearly no housing, doesnt feel alive. same problem with academy town
by the way, comparing size of a wall tower and another building, buildings seem like out of scale. wall tower looks too small, or other buildings are too big.. etc etc. one can find many examples in this topic. unrealistic
and i have to say that dragon statue is way too big and it is really looking in wrong spot of the town. make it smaller and put it to an important place. things like this, monumental things, should be in most important spot or it should show the most important spot with its influence. making statue bigger is the worst way to creating this influence, definetly not an architectural approach.
coming to biggest problem, THIS TOWN DOESNT HAVE ANY PROTECTION IN 3 DIRECTION!
my advise is, make some houses between acctual game-play buildings(or districts like military-district) to create distance and make it feel more alive and clearer to eye at the same time. this will also make the town field to grow wider which is again is a nice thing if you really think about it. middle-age looking cities, esspecially human towns-cities tend to create an horizontal effect, not vertical effect. the way it looks now is like it is canned in a few land piece,
also not to forget, please make walls and towers to cover whole city!
i understand the complications with creating a town screen(as i am currently working on my town screen too) i get that you guys try to make it readable to eye, i understand that you want to see the front of the city gate and the city itself at the same time but its not loking good and its pushing limits too hard at a big cost. let go of this idea or just expand city itself to horizon with space filler houses.
farm-houses can work well outside of cty walls. its okay to see some buildings smaller, especially if they are not clickable game-play buildings. also use this to create a beautiful city silhouette(if i were you i would be using windmills too). i dont know who is working on town screens, but i urgently advise them to examine city silhouettes and acctual realistic middle age architectural construction technics
as a beginning i suggest looking to generally rome technics + greek acropolis silhouette for haven
i really dont want to point out every mistake in structers but you should know that it has really big flaws. im pretty much sure that your artist/artists dont have enough architectural knowladge. find an architect or learn about architecute. please.
side note: i imagined wolf as a darker theme. if i were you, i would be also looking into acctual atmosphere. too hopeful and happy in my opinion..
On the grail building, I suggested in an earlier post that it gets shrunk down a bit and put behind the capital with it's claws resting lightly on the roof, symbolizing defense of Elrath's followers, and gazing out over the city, symbolizing his guidance.
Cleglaw I upvoted you. You seem to share some knowlegde of design with me. The thing is, that I am 100% procent sure that they hired amateur for this thing. Here is why. The design is not on same tune with haven units looks, and that is the 1st rule of designing broken right here. Corrupting uniformity of graphic design is fatal mistake...
...Even if Limbic have two different people for visuals - one made units and the other person town. The town screen artist in this case, have to stick with theme, which was settled by person who made haven units. Next thing, I sure that this designer has no knowledge of history of architecture or history of art itself. You seen this too, the classicist building in medieval town?? And same goes for Academy TS, russian orthodox church, and art nouveau style building in arabic theme...
The person who made this have no clue how to design something. Doesnt know the procedure, the rules.. Doesnt know architecture history. There is zero creativity in this picture. Bunch of random buildings without some idea, and that giant statue is meant to save poor view. Limbic why don't you hire PROFESSIONAL designer??!! This is the reason why educated people with talent, have to polish toilets in hipster vegan bistro and eat ramen every fucking day.
Everyone on this post upvoted.
@Niwroc, good idea, but I think is better to put the grail building like a shadow of light between the clouds, like the Inferno grail building in Heroes 3. I mean, an Elrath's figure of light in the sky.
So town screens are a lost cause , great...
(oh and don't tell me it will be changed its still in prgoress etc etc ... thats just a safe word that doesnt mean anything)
better than academy but still the same lifeless plastic toyhouse ts.
Well that's constructive, will certainly help designers to improve it lol
Fun fact about the dragon!
Looking at the demo haven Tc : http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=40500
You might get lost looking at the other kick ass townscreens that make our current ones look like piles of Sh**, which is understandable. But after you scroll past what H7 Townscreens should look like, you will see the size of the dragon actually INCREASED from when we saw it in the demo :P
@GalaadleHaut no , they don't need to improve it, they need to redo it this one is bad from the basics
but since thats not going to happen here are some ideas that could improve it
(also more people and houses in city)
Sounds it is a subconscious message of sorts. It goes like this: "We do not have much money to make better town screen artwork. So suck it up" or somesuch.
@Zangetas YES!!!! That could fix it :D
@Zangetas Lifeless is really the correct word to sum up this town screen. Heaven town should be much more busy.
Ok, is true that many critics have been made already after twitch and it seems that it was completely ignored.
-- http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=40500 --
So Ubisoft is forcing us to shout like angry kids, because they can't consider proper arguments.
After more thought I think is pointless to ask for a full redo.
Nice Art, but in closer look, this town dont have sense.
1. Lifeless, not buildings for townsfolk
2. Walls only from one direction ?
3. None streets , Building are builds on grass ? Main stairs leads to nowhere !
4. Entrance from Cathedral of Light leads directly to waterfall ?
5. Transept of Elysium standing on flying rock without access
and many more
Lol nice notes, especially 4 and 5 :D
Good feedback! Although the number 5 maybe is a little bit off if we consider that's the Angel Building (they fly, so there's no need to have road access to it).
maybe, but still some people must build this house,and care about him. How servants come there ?
People wrote earlier that Heaven is "darker" and more "medieval" and it's good. And now we get town screen like from LEGO :P
Exactly, I noticed that too. I was hoping a Wolf Dutchy town would looks less baroque and more like a real medieval town
I really liked the picture of the tree when they were talking about Sylvan town. Screens they showing as now are like taken from a tale for children age 2-7- too bright colours make it look rather unserious and funny, no more epic climate of this game.
Yeah, the sylvan arts were really nice. But I worry for the final result, the style is too cartoony :<
We will have plastic buildings on a tree, lol! 0_0
I really hope we will get the tree island designer's level at the end. This one is exactly as you said: LEGO.
Look at the screens taken from ONLINE game- heroes of war and money connected to Heroes V.
I feel they look better than these from heroes VII ;d
Well actually you're right Camilus. The TS doesn't reflects much the units.
I think Grail building is too small, we barely see it :P
To small!? It is a freaking giant dragon!!!
Medic, you're not so familiar with concept of sarcasm I presume.
I think... but pease note, it's just my wild guess! I think that he could have been sarcastic here;DDD
Nice one, Galaadle^^
Rs, good one!
Dear developers , you showed to us two townscreens and none of them corresponds to Heroes quality, so please react to the community as faster as you can, and explain why it is look so cheap. Because if you will show new townscreens at the same quality, nothing will change and all community will be very disappointed with this.
Bekause if the most of us play we onely spend abut 5% of time in townsreen. So Dev`s spend the most time and monny in the other 95%
@Skoppye. It's a simple 2D thing. I really don't understand how could it be that hard to create something nice and logical. How much do you have to spend for 6 simple images? ;-) Milions? Seriously, stop all this shit about money.
I can accept going with 2D for budgetary reasons but this is so fake & lifeless. :( Reminds me of Heroes4 where the buildings look pasted on to the landscape.
1 Why r there no roads? The buildings r just sitting in green grass.
2 Why r there buildings with front doors in water or on a cliff edge?? eg cathedral & transept
3 In demo video there was only moving water & flags, not enough to stop it looking like a painting. Will there be people or creatures moving around? eg Heroes1 did that so well
2. They will hire mage taxis from academy to deepen the alliance and bring multi-culturalism to haven!
4 What's going with the wall? If I was marching an army at this castle I'd just walk around & attack from the other side at the beast den or the horse stables. The wall needs to go from one cliff to another & over all water.
5 Green hills on the right have less detail than the ones on the left. Looks half finished & very painted. Needs more detailing.
6 I'm guessing those painted grass blades don't move? Having frozen grass blades as the closest foreground area kills immersion & other animation.
comon you guys, it's just a rough draft so to say, but its better than nothing at all, give devs time, they know how to make it looks nice and neat)))
I don't share your optimism on that. This doesn't actually look like a rough draft, it seems quite finished. And it's not for us to give devs time (I would! They need quite a lot...) it' up to Ubi - which doesn't. If I haven't missed any news the game is to be realeased this year so not much time at all.
ptrsc, honestly i really doubt it will be ready by that time(((
Me too. But I don't think it will stop Ubi from releasing it...
7 Where are the houses? I can't see even one! Nor can I see space left for them. It's just a big crowd of disconnected guilds facing in random directions (due to no roads). No wonder the town looks dead. There's clearly no one living there lol!
Rough draft is on everything to cover ass, Im yet 2 see progression on any artwork fans have heavily criticized. This town looks unchanged from the gamescon demo 6mths ago, we all complained about it back then & were clearly ignored. The game comes out this year so you should be worried, we should all be worried. If ur gonna cut 3D & go 2D, at least put more animation in there than moving water & flags. Heroes1, a simple 90s 640x480 game had more lifelike towns then this, a 2015 game.
+ beatufil scenery, gorgeous nature
+ ts and music suit each other
+ many details
+ marvelous architecture, delightful elements, very fantasy
+ general view of the town (from long distance)
+ feeling of size, imagination
- awful wall
- awul magic guild
- errors in lines and perspective
- some illolgical placements, no road connection elements and buildings (town portal, thieves build, wall protects precipe etc.)
- almost no civil building (is it town?)
- some building, although beautiful, do not seem useful for their aim- horse stables can be a church, is small, same archer tower how can they train?, same beast's den)./ Almost everything looks like town hall or temple
- completely does not suit army theme. Look at their savage appearance, wolf emblem and direwolf itself- and here we have mostholy town in the franchise history
overall 6,5 or 7/10... more like HoMM 2, HoMM 4 was generally poor (due to same placement in each town- however, the ground changed with scenery). no 3d town, architecture and scenery better here than in HoMM 3. But in HoMM 3 there was a true town, better placement and generally all the town looked more consisted, matched, more functional (not only beatiful)
and last minus- as mentioned, it is too similar in shape and architecture to Academy
Agreed, but i dont see ur good points being all that relevant, i mean: "beatufil scenery, gorgeous nature" - thats sylvans thing, not haven. " feeling of size, imagination" - i find the city looking so small and that wall stops at the resources sylo, Dont tell me the town is never gonna get attacked from behind where it has no walls! -_-
I agree with ur bad side of things completely, ill also add how stupid the angel doweling looks.
Town itself is small (it is not even a town, villages have more civiliians than this...) but overall the feeling how buildings are tall and big is quite impressive- I think that the whole town could e far more behind and surrounded by more house dwellings and solid wall with a moat- it would be awesome!
yeah, some placements and decisions are lame, to put i simply. With every siegeI will wonder why to fight under walls and not near sylo...
By gorgeous scenery I mean how it is matching and how it is nice too look at. Volcanic scenery for Inferno can also be beautiful- it does not mean sweet or pleasure for humans, but rather about details, climate, overall feeling...
Here scenery really reminds the one of knight from HoMM 2 and Conflux from Homm 3.
Another version of snowy Haven.
Thx to Lawmakerex1 for buildings positioning improvements, adding of walls & civilian buildings, all I did is applying filters to tone down these colors I find way too flashy and add some snow.
-- http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag274/Galaadlehaut/Havensnow6_zpsaeb5be61.gif --
Snow storm version :
-- http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag274/Galaadlehaut/havensnow4_zps13a468c0.gif --
Both is great, but I find the snow to be a little to much, but it is still a great addition...
Great work. Certainly much better than thew original work. I think the stormy one looks better but I do not think this kind of think can be used in the game.
I can still see some problems like empty area where town portal was but that is just small issue
Again grat work both of you :D
Thx for feedback, here is version without snow, only toned down colors.
-- http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag274/Galaadlehaut/HAVENlg_zps7be941c4.gif --
Awesome! great job!
This one is much better
My personal favorite is the snow storm (as concept idea), I have some logic Wolf=Snow lol, but it has been rightly pointed out might be a bit tedious for buildings selection.
The "toned down" version is just perfect!
Thanks, it`s amazing how fans do better work than actual developers. Tone is so much more mature and medieval, better. I like those civil buildings also. Now the transept of elysium is in place that actually makes sense(not in the freaking ground)
Truly great work! I hope devs will take some serious notes.
samuli : Well, this is photoshop you know, we suggest atmospheres and different dispositions. Implementing in game though, is a whole other story.
That's very good ! Especialy the two lasts !
@GalaadleHaut, Yes i know its photoshop and that`s why it`s amazing how it looks better than the original..
sorry if I misunderstood you samuli !
Thx for feedback :)
Cool, but maybe the walls can be higher. But it 's still mutch better then what we have.
The toned version is definitely something. It reminds me of the aesthetics of HoMM6.
I like it looks great :)
Ugh, they're really still insisting to have the comically large dragon statue?
12 Year olds say: "wow cool, big badass monument of a (ugly) dragon! YEAH!!"
I kinda think they designing all for the new generation and don't want to listen to the old fans. All kinda stuff have to be awesome and great (just the same with the new "minerals", Sulvur doen't sounds cool enough nowadays)
Dear Developer, please read this, while most of the times TS is just an eye candy but it's and will always be integral part of the game. Focusing on gameplay is awesome and I couldn't deny it's utmost importance. This is a TBS and potentially has crazy amount of hours for people to play or even finish just one map. There are times when we want to relax and enjoy the town views while making strategies. It will worth it and I hope you guys will put more effort into it. Thanks for the hard work.