18
alcibiades.dk The Mysterious
May 05, 2015 22:38:41

While the abilities here look pretty good, the Skills themselves seem extremely boring. The fact that Diplomacy is now (again) a skill in itself and not an ability within Leadership seems like a step back compared to H5 for me. This is an example of a skill that's going to be all but impossible to balance - if you make bonus from Diplomacy too big it'll be a snowball, if you make them small for balance, it'll be a waste to put that many skill points into getting to a level where you'll benefit.

10
malax83 
May 05, 2015 22:49:56

yes, i entierly agree with you. You explain it much better.

25
logical.dust 
May 05, 2015 23:07:09

I think similar problem will be in Righteousness with its cumulative effects. Overall I doubt that it is even possible to balance this system and at the same time keep promised "controll" to the player. Random nature of previous systems did the balancing job quite well without explicitly restricting anything.

14
Kaspar1997 
May 05, 2015 23:17:58

Oby żeby Kasparem dało się grać w trybie wieloosobowymj!!!!!!!!!

22
Niwroc The Ancient
May 05, 2015 23:22:38

To me at least it seems like they are going the path of balancing hero abilities by making all of them OP. This puts way too much emphasis on heroes in battle though. Seems like the actual army will be most irrelevant.

23
SlumbrousShip5 The Furious
May 05, 2015 23:42:44

Nothing needs to be OP this isnt a moba. You're suppose to have to think when playing a heroes game. Now you don't even have to worry about increasing your att and def stats with these bullsnow ULTIMATES. Don't need to worry about positioning units, just sit back, shoot, and wait to be attacked so you can PREEMPTIVE strike your way to victory.

25
logical.dust 
May 05, 2015 23:53:24

@ SlumbrousShip5 : thing might be that offense GM will not add much actually. By the time you reach it you already have quite offense bonus from ranking it up, therefore it might not be as OP as it seems. I do share your concerns thou. This game will not feel as playing heroes of might and magic.

22
Niwroc The Ancient
May 05, 2015 23:55:15

Do you agree though that the hero will decide a battle, not the army though? Unless they make all creatures insanely powerful as well that is what is likely to happen.

23
SlumbrousShip5 The Furious
May 06, 2015 00:06:57

I do agree. And I would say it is the completely wrong way to do things. The only way to counter this crap is do level the hero in the same way to fight fire with fire. And that sucks. You should fight fire with water...or earth, or wind, or with tactics and strategy.
-
Try and imagine a fight against one hero with preemptive strike against another hero without it. The hero without it is going to get crushed. Taking losses everytime you go to melee attack. No wonder they forced elite shooters

24
KhanOfSlaughter The Conqueror
May 06, 2015 08:14:48

Yeah there are certain skills you feel you must have, but that's no different to previous heroes games. Take heroes 3: if you didn't have wisdom you were screwed even more so that this. The issue is that it is so easy to choose it. There are skills such as preemptive strike that players will always choose because they have the ability to. Sure I could turn on random skills, but how would that work with so many options I'll never figure out.

23
Matooob 
May 06, 2015 11:19:29

It seems there are only 2 type of skills. Amazingly OP and X-factor.

12
JojoN0816 The Mighty
May 06, 2015 12:47:10

I personally am very worried too about "Preemptive Strike" beeing avaliable to at Expert level already.
It used to be a very rare ability. Now it seems like players without it might be at a very big disadvantage.
I'd prefer having it at Grabndmaster level!

23
SlumbrousShip5 The Furious
May 06, 2015 17:39:19

Kind of like giving away no range penalty. So much for sharpshooters making a return lol.

22
Lizard_Warrior 
May 05, 2015 19:40:01

X Factor
Increase x skill by x points for every x hero levels

30
mErEnEfErEee The Furious
May 05, 2015 19:38:24

UBI, you forgot to add that those who pay will test play.

4
zarazandra 
May 13, 2015 14:05:36

that's a closed beta. Wait for the open beta and you can play it as well. Where`s the problem?!

25
logical.dust 
May 05, 2015 22:27:49

Overall not that bad, but I still prefer H5 skillwheel. I have no idea why ubi you do this. H5 skillwheel needed only few tweaks, yet you chose to replace it completely. Why literaly reinventing the wheel? (and making it worse at same time). You seem to deliberately replace old game elements and inventing new ones, I would say no word if you expanded existing stuff with new elements, but you just discard old ones and put new ones instead. you did same thing with lore ...

25
logical.dust 
May 05, 2015 22:34:52

You completely lack the respect towards older game instalments and ignore what was good in them so you can show your endless creativity to shine. Well good luck with this franchise if for the second time people will be disapointed that this game isnt actuall heroes of might and magic. I am sure that it will not be bad game as lot of effort was given to it, but its missed oportunity.

30
GalaadleHaut The Hero
May 05, 2015 22:50:25

IMO arrogance is preventing them to make things right. Their lack of respect towards this franchise is impressive.

8
njsfigo The Raider
May 06, 2015 05:30:27

I appreciate them trying new things. While we can argue that they are changing something that's core to the enjoyment of Heroes, in my eyes it's acceptable. Sorry if you don't find it so. This is a matter of us being a conservative or liberal fan and I guess I'm in the liberal spectrum.

14
Woodplay The Magical
May 06, 2015 08:08:03

A good or bad system has nothing conservative or liberal about, I like innovations, I like almost all Homm, including parts of MMH6, but you see no progression here, some skill has static boost, there aren't much debuffing skill to balance things, some skills is pretty useless without pre-requirement, some skills are over-powering at novice level, hell a lot of restriction (level cap/ pre-selected skill set/ faction bind and yet I still like to try MMH7, but that has nothing to do with liberal

18
alcibiades.dk The Mysterious
May 05, 2015 22:33:59

Good to get the ball rolling a bit faster on the skill reveal. Most of the abilities here seem pretty reasonable imo., but Amnesty is a total crap skill and needs to get some secondary effect, otherwise it will get zero game time.

12
big_lazy_lion The Mysterious
May 06, 2015 10:32:58

No range penalty as novice? That's the equivalent to a relic grade artefact right of the bat. Seems a bit much.

11
ThorHammerhand 
May 06, 2015 11:18:23

whilst I agree to that, how many units have the range penalty?, what is the degredation of said penalty (orcs in HmmIV would be much better if the penalty was negated).

Bring on the balance

11
ThorHammerhand 
May 06, 2015 11:18:25

whilst I agree to that, how many units have the range penalty?, what is the degredation of said penalty (orcs in HmmIV would be much better if the penalty was negated).

Bring on the balance

25
RobvD84 The Mad
May 06, 2015 11:49:51

@Thor enough to make it too op. And if you combine it with Golden Tongue and Necessary Alliance you could create a army with only ranged troops. Then you don't need any strategy/tactics...

14
Luhorox 
May 06, 2015 12:34:55

It seems that the best strategy is to choose novice and (sometimes) expert abilities from all skills and forget about grandmaster ones. So far most of the grandmaster tier abilities aren't worth digging. Air Magic and Destiny are the ones I'd consider going deep into.

17
GMnemonic 
May 05, 2015 21:27:47

IM soooo done with this skill and creature ability system I guess I will not buy this game after last iterations extreme rush job repeat

21
GarionRahl The Magical
May 05, 2015 20:15:34

J'aime beaucoup les habilités liées à ces 3 compétences ! Enfin, je trouverai une utilité à la compétence de diplomacie ! ;)

23
shmelloff The Chivalrous
May 05, 2015 20:03:59

Решили по 3 сразу выкладывать - что до 25 успеть))

14
L0rd_XEEN The Mad
May 05, 2015 20:06:29

Мои мысли читаешь 0_о

25
Black_Weaver The Butcher
May 05, 2015 20:13:59

Твои мысли?) Так в статье написано)

25
jewelryan The Hero
May 05, 2015 20:16:24

Я с кем-то заводила разговор на тему, что Юби нужно успеть скиллы до бетки показать. Неужто наши разговоры прочитали?

25
Black_Weaver The Butcher
May 05, 2015 20:23:03

Они нас никогда не читают, скорее всего просто мнения совпали)

25
jewelryan The Hero
May 05, 2015 20:25:02

Вот черт, я уже надеялась, мы не зря комментарии пишем.

30
Mirash_ge The Dragon
May 05, 2015 20:27:34

вообще то зря )) СКАЗКА О ПОТЕРЯННОМ ВРЕМЕНИ )))

23
SlumbrousShip5 The Furious
May 05, 2015 23:25:28

Is this event strategy game anymore? Looks like fights will have a maximum of about 5 turns with all the OP ULTIMATES

23
SlumbrousShip5 The Furious
May 05, 2015 23:25:56

Is this even a*
Give us edit button

22
Niwroc The Ancient
May 05, 2015 23:34:34

Everything being OP is kind of a balance. Just not a good one.

14
mammothhunter3 
May 05, 2015 23:43:48

Everything is OP might be the rock - paper - scissors they were talking about. Also, obliterating overwhelming army with a tiny army just because you're a hero is very RPG-like

23
SlumbrousShip5 The Furious
May 06, 2015 00:00:28

^^^^^^^^^
And I am certain heroes was never NEVER meant to be a rock, paper, scissor kind of game.
Btw, unless its a draw, rock paper scissor games only have one round till there its decided. Kinda like what i said in the OG post

24
KhanOfSlaughter The Conqueror
May 06, 2015 08:18:48

OP Ultimates are great! They're suppose to be OP! But I do disagree that they're that OP in the first place. Sure if a tier 1 unit is attacking a tier 3 unit it is a big boost, but that power gets significantly less with tier 2 v tier 3 and then does not exist if attacking or defending with a tier 3 unit, and doesn't occur at all if attacked by or attacking a tier 1 unit.

12
Pal2Zileri The Mad
May 06, 2015 08:46:42

It meens that it doesn't matter any more what kind of creaturs u have but how many so in that situation your champion and elite wil be the worst in your army.

14
AshansBest The Guardian
May 06, 2015 09:17:10

Ultimate abillites are less OP then in H5 so shut up.

24
KhanOfSlaughter The Conqueror
May 06, 2015 09:51:33

"It meens that it doesn't matter any more what kind of creaturs u have but how many so in that situation your champion and elite wil be the worst in your army."

Not sure there's a hero class that can gain both offense and defense ultimates so that would not be the case. Anyway, there's more to creatures than just attack and defense. You're forgetting damage and hp

21
GarionRahl The Magical
May 05, 2015 20:45:37

Avec ces 3 descriptions, on en apprend un peu plus sur le rôle du gouverneur d'une cité ! Ça semble vraiment être un rôle important dans ce jeu, ce qui est vraiment bien !

20
savvx 
May 05, 2015 20:16:00

Довольно интересно, с такой системой они весьма приблизились к решению проблемы "одного героя". Теперь будет смысл нанимать губернаторов: дипломатов, защитников и т.п. И прокачивать на пять - десять уровней, для полноценного функционала городов и пригородов. Одно в статье не понравилось, анлимит для стрелков надо в экспер уровень засунуть вместо флангования, а то один уровень и все стрелки - чемпионы биатлона.

17
feidet1 
May 05, 2015 20:23:45

1 герой это не проблема, а совсем наоборот :) Ну не буквально 1, а 2-3.

20
ADAMIT_1986T The Raider
May 05, 2015 20:51:54

savvx --- Прива! В таком свете навыков атаки и защиты абилка духа и вампира с атакой по флангам не кажется такой уж глупостью! Я читал, что будут выкладывать по три навыка до 25 мая,чтобы все раскрыть к бете то есть, в бете будут все навыки, не пропатченые, но и не порезанные. хорошо, что в каком-то смысле атака перекрывает оборону, по крайней мере по гроссам. По поводу стрелков, будто с языка снял. даже не смотря на маленькое количество лукарей, бонус довольно хороший,+ маг воздуха. Вау, да

16
ElinaHD 
May 05, 2015 19:54:17

What? Skills again? This is boring! We're waiting for great interesting news! Where are necropolis changed units, where are sylvan elves, Q&A, Haven video?!

22
Ubi-Nox The Shadow Of Deathedited by a moderator
May 05, 2015 20:00:30

I understand that too much skill can appear disappointing but this is also to leave the room for future different content afterwards :)
Concerning Necropolis, even if it is only 2 of them, it takes a lot of time to revamp creatures! The team is focusing on the beta at the moment but our artists have this on their to do list and it will be showed as soon as possible!

21
JedynyHex The Mighty
May 05, 2015 20:04:01

New models and animations for Vampire and Lich are not ready yet, I suppose.
About the rest I agree except Q&A - they are usually boring as hell.

25
Antalyan The Ancient
May 05, 2015 20:11:44

Whenever we get general information, you want skills.
Whenever we get a skill article, you want videos.
Whenever we get a video, you want the sylvan.
And I suppose when we get the sylvan, you will want the dungeon instead.

Poor developers, some fans are really terrible. I apologize for all those fans.

25
Black_Weaver The Butcher
May 05, 2015 20:13:15

Thank you Ubi-Nox that you became to talk to us more often :) We really appreciate this!

13
FortAlb The Faithful
May 05, 2015 20:22:40

antalyan

That is the human nature. Alas, people will always strive for more.

14
Woodplay The Magical
May 05, 2015 20:51:30

nah, some people care more about sylvan elves or other things more than skills, they been waiting for a long time, as I have said before people will not be unsatisfied if they know when their desired information is released.

16
ElinaHD 
May 05, 2015 21:09:00

Ubi-Nox, thank you for answering!

25
Antalyan The Ancient
May 06, 2015 19:37:08

@FortAlb
I know about human nature. But it does not mean that people should write their critical thoughts here, they should keep them for themselves. Imagine the developers situation, they are doing their best and they do not deserve so much critics.

25
logical.dust 
May 06, 2015 09:18:49

Folks seriously ... I have just checked icons of H3, H4, H5 all of them have far superior icons for skills than what you showing now. These are comparable maybe with H2 (maybe). Halooo ... it is 2015. You cant even complain on 3D art here ... additionally H6 icons sucked as well, I really hope that you do not plan to copy paste those from there and leave it like that as it seems right now.

25
RobvD84 The Mad
May 06, 2015 09:21:51

I am hoping these are just temporarely icons. And the ingame icons will be "new".

24
KhanOfSlaughter The Conqueror
May 06, 2015 10:19:16

They're just icons...

25
RobvD84 The Mad
May 06, 2015 11:55:20

No Khan these are not just icons. If you copy paste them from H6 wich a lot of ppl consider a bad game (Not all icons are copy paste, but it's the same artstyle), then it will remind ppl of it and that will affect sales (i think) in the end. The same with the art style, since that looks a lot like H6. How many ppl do you think turned away by that artstyle that looks just like in H6? A lot of ppl already had thier judgement ready, especially after how H6 was recieved.

24
KhanOfSlaughter The Conqueror
May 06, 2015 13:14:23

I agree with what you said RobvD84, it was a mistake for them to use similar icons and art style since that immediately reminded people of H6 and they dismissed what they saw due to that fact and no other. But we're smarter than that.

25
logical.dust 
May 06, 2015 18:01:42

Not only that they remind H6, there is absolutely no reason for having them like trash. Low budget for creating normal icon set? You got to be kidding me ... this isnt about being smart or not. I demand value for my money. What added value will this game have versus H5 for example? You say graphics? Yes most certainly as rest of game seems as crap so far. But no, not even graphics shine and details like this (icons) pretty much demonstrate my point. Town screens is other example.

4
zarazandra 
May 13, 2015 14:12:06

You really have too much time.

28
Marblethrone The Chivalrous
May 06, 2015 09:01:39

These skills are mostly passive, like in previous installments (stuff like Archery/Accuracy which has been there at least since H3, Evasion was a passive skill in H5 etc). I assume that the abilities belonging to Warfare will be more on the active front. What I'd like to see is something similar to Heroic Charge, which increases unit damage with each tile crossed on the battlefield, and also increases movement for one turn. Don't add too much passive, though, it makes the hero too powerful.

28
Marblethrone The Chivalrous
May 06, 2015 09:04:15

With each powerful passive skill, the hero doesn't have to waste a turn by bestowing them upon a unit, or more units. That way you can focus on other things, spells etc, while the passive skills already give enormous buffs to your troops. In H6, though, I do put priority on passive skills and buffs over active skills, because each combat will likely last only a handful of turns...you may not even be able to use half of your active skills anyway.

21
Alex3453455 The Councilor
May 05, 2015 20:37:56

Не плохо. Но мы то знаем, что большинство форумчан ждут презентацию юнитов эльфов, чуть ли не больше самой игры. Ох уж там обсуждений будет, а то тут и подискутировать особо не о чем))

25
jewelryan The Hero
May 05, 2015 20:40:40

Юби-Нокс сказал, что в мае эльфов не будет.

21
Alex3453455 The Councilor
May 05, 2015 20:43:46

Понятен. Им нас ещё целое лето всякой... новостями различными кормить. Вот тогда может и покажут остроухих. Хотя я бы на их месте вообще бы не стал показывать ни ТЭ, ни лесных. А придержать их до выхода игры. Тем более мы сами их и выбирали, в том числе и состав вот и увидим когда купим чего навыбирали))

25
jewelryan The Hero
May 05, 2015 20:46:16

Уже вон ноют, эльфов подавай. Не представляю, что будет, если их вообще не покажут хдд

30
Mirash_ge The Dragon
May 05, 2015 21:14:37

Ал .я выбирала кошмариков и фениксов...........не сыпь мне соль на рану (( Тэ конечно любопытно посмотреть \посмеяться\ , а Лэ можно и не показывать , я оленей наверное не переживу )))

17
Kara_Seyra 
May 06, 2015 17:24:20

Мирашь, ты похоже за олене

17
Kara_Seyra 
May 06, 2015 17:25:34

ней больше меня переживаешь. Мне они жутко не нравятся но умирать из за них это уже через чур :)))

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