19
Maverickk66 
September 27, 2014 07:44:13

If there isn't going to be a random skill tree like in H5 then you need to make the skills have certain requirements and really balance them out. The problem with H6 was all you had to do was level up and pick the OP ones. The skills in H6 were either OP or Junk, therefore you picked the same ones over and over. If you balance out the skill tree and then make certain requirements, i.e, this skill require 5 might and 10 knowledge, we will have to aim and work for that skill.

3
Reaper6652 
September 27, 2014 07:46:46

I believe also that randomness is the best way to do it, however a controlled skill tree and be great as long as its done right and I think we can all agree that H6 skill tree was NOT done right.

3
Zipp_Dipp 
September 27, 2014 07:56:45

Choosing your skills need to have consequences, whether they are bad or good.
Controlled ones really don't have consequences because you can see the complete line up and can predict what will happen when you choose what. Not being able to do that makes you sit and think. I agree with having certain requirements, having to sacrifice might for defense to obtain the skill you want could have consequences later on. But that's what makes a strategy game fun.

7
Itasha2012 
September 27, 2014 08:32:02

Travis444078, you point out a major problem that is having skills that are OP and others that are junk. The first thing to do is to avoid that, but it's impossible to have skills of purely equal interest in such a complex game. Anyway, we're focusing on the problems you're talking about.

Our goal is to have players really think about which skills and abilities to pick, when, and according to the context, their faction, their playstyle, and the map's specificities.

11
yogikurn 
September 27, 2014 08:51:43

For me, as long as there's nothing that make a game "Broken" either by skills, creature, or artifact or even a glitch/bugs, it'd look good enough.
As of balance, we should look it from every point of view, then we could judge if something could be considered "imbalance". Sometimes we just need a spell, sets of skills, or creature to counter / make the previously said as "imbalance" into a normal thing. And i think every faction has it's own advantages and also disadvantages.

23
SlumbrousShip5 The Furious
September 27, 2014 17:02:53

We'll this isn't hero 6 and partly why that sucked so much was because the skills were combined with the magic system which made the magic class heroes a lot weaker. The magic system is changed which means that problem is already gone. Honestly with the way this games been going I couldn't care less about random skill wheel

2
Vendallion_8 
September 27, 2014 17:36:37

@slum
He never said this was H6. Most people will agree that the magic system wasn't the only issue with a controlled skill tree. Taking that out does not fix it.
I do agree with what travis444078 is saying about the OP skills. But the fact that the devs are seeing what everyone says and taking note of it, shows that they truly care about making this the best heroes game yet. I really love the involvement they are letting us have.

30
GalaadleHaut The Hero
September 27, 2014 21:14:22

Random skills + non-random perks.

30
GalaadleHaut The Hero
September 27, 2014 22:19:56

Even if IMHO Full Random is the best

25
logical.dust 
September 30, 2014 02:05:46

Problem with requirements is that I am afraid that it will be too limiting. Why giving people controll and then immidiately restrict them from using it? In random system there are most options limited only by the fact that you have to be lucky, but option is there. Overall I think that nonrandom system would not provide much more controll, it would only organize what you can get early and what later - so less controll in fact and will make the game less dynamic and more predictable.

24
BeYo_OnD The Ancient
September 26, 2014 18:28:33

5)

I think this is a mistake. Randomness had its flavor. The devs should really reconsider.

19
iWellplay The Wanderer
September 26, 2014 18:36:23

Its combination of both systems from H5 & H6!

Learn to read with understanding.

28
ramborusina 
September 26, 2014 18:42:29

@iWellplay isn't it you who should learn to read with understanding...?

They clearly say there isn't any randomization. It's basically the skill-wheel from h5 and you will always get the skills you want. Like now you might plan that yeah I want arcane omniscience for academy so first I take war-machines, then sorcery and then enlightnment with their specific required abilities.
In the past luck was major part of the process as you didn't always get the skills you hoped and it made you adapt.

14
yjesus45 The Magnificient
September 26, 2014 18:56:39

@ramborusina
Who told you that the ultimate skills will exist? Maybe there will be several for different play style? Many games aren't using the random skill factor and it work out fine, have some faith. With randomness by the way, I just used to reload every time I leveled to get the right skill, which is just stupid.

8
guest-i0CVm3BQ 
September 26, 2014 19:04:45

@ yjesus45
he did not say anything about ultimate skills so do not make straw mans.
and just becouse you can't see the fun in adapting new tactics, is your problem.
and there is no fun in always getting what you want. always playing with you ultimate build

28
ramborusina 
September 26, 2014 19:27:51

Actually guest I did say about ultimate-skill, but I just used that as an example to make a point about how you would use the same skills over and over again. I try to get ultimate-skill with roughly half the factions and I will risk even getting bad skills at times for it. Even if I don't get the best of skills, it makes the games feel different and worth playing. In h6 it was so incredibly boring when you knew which skills you would take the moment you saw the map, no variation :/

29
Cleglaw The Councilor
September 26, 2014 19:28:42

expecting randomness of choices in a tactical-strategical game is beyond fail.meeting H6 system with h5 skills is best thing there to be done.

28
ramborusina 
September 26, 2014 19:46:44

Cleglaw you do realize that h5 didn't have purely random leveling if you really understood the system. The only time with utter randomness was when you had skill maxed out and had to choose between 2 skills. This was bad way of building hero, only time I got drawn into this was if for the first 4 level-ups I had only bad choices offered and that would've been very very very rare.

25
logical.dust 
September 27, 2014 01:20:25

@ Cleglaw : I do not have any proof of my claim, however I would dare to say that HOMM is mostly played single player. There is no need to have that much of a strategical controll to defeat AI opponent. Hereos will never be competitive game as starcraft or dota because it is diferent game type. Typical game takes more than 2-5 hours - thats way too much for multiplayer session. Trying to make this game something it isnt will lead to its doom. H6 tried it way too hard.

30
Sempai_Mur The Dark
September 27, 2014 01:00:42

>>But in the end we decided to let you choose what skills / abilities you want to unlock.

Meh =\ sad to hear :( Random rules. Heroes skills were always random. That's why it was a total fun. And that's why H6 were total boredom. Why not to vote for this instead of pointless creature votings?

11
therealoverzaz 
September 26, 2014 22:17:13

We had many heated discussions regarding randomness in hero development. Both internally and from what we heard from VIP fans, the world is divided in two parts : those who love randomness, and those who prefer control.

Personally I prefer being in control. In previous games I couldn't just stop myself from being dissapointed when I got something that wasn't fitting my playstyle or the hero I wanted to develop for that particular game.

11
therealoverzaz 
September 26, 2014 22:17:26

In Heroes V, there was a building just to reset your hero and I think it was a fix for a design that could never satisfy everyone.

I believe curious players don't need to be forced to try new things, new skill combinations, to have fun, they should just try it out by themselves.

Anyway your comments are welcome...the shadow council is being heard.

14
Arugaf The Guardian
September 26, 2014 22:30:18

When you might choose skills by yourself, it's bring absolute identity in hero development. No one will want to play with sucking build. You must really work hard to bring choice in game. It easier if you just add (return) randomness in this aspect.

19
rsurdal The Kreegan
September 26, 2014 22:36:41

Heroes 5 did one thing right. Having different skills for different towns/factions. There where alot more varity in Heroes 5, than Heroes 6 skill system.

30
GalaadleHaut The Hero
September 26, 2014 22:51:46

Thank you for taking part in the discussion. While I appreciate your personal opinion, I believe I am not the only one hungry for a little more specifics on the matter :) Would you be so kind to share with us more on your reflexion about it ?

PS "If you're not slamming your fist into the desk over the injustice of the game, then you have failed at making a good Heroes game."

25
logical.dust 
September 26, 2014 23:13:37

Random factor was unique part of HOMM franchise. There are plenty of RPG games where people can decide everything. Choice from 20 options is much harder than from 4 options. Having all the controll is not always good (there are actually psychological studies about this). I would strongly recommend to implement what was successfull in the past.

11
GuardiaAngel 
September 26, 2014 23:21:16

New game mean new game right ?If people want old things they can play old games...i think this is not only about nostalgia of the past.Yes i do love some old things but some of them just dont fit new games.Most of the people love H3 jsut because they dont wanna learn new games like H5 and H6 and they say new games suck.No offence but most of the ppl are just lazy to learn new strategies and new play style because they wont be so good anymore and they complain.I personaly prefer mix of both

15
EmynonAred The Guardian
September 26, 2014 23:21:43

Heroes V has one problem: the ultimate skill.
For this skill it is necessary to get the right skills and that doesnt't fit with a random skill system.

If there is no ultimate skill it is not such a problem with random skills.
Perhaps if it would be possible to choose from 3 skills or perks instead of 2 like in H5 most people would be satisifed?

25
logical.dust 
September 26, 2014 23:38:24

@ GuardiaAngel : If you want new game you do not have to wait for this one to finish developing, there are plenty of other cool games out there right now. You can go and learn how to play all of them if you so much like new things. Developing a sequel however I dare to think is about continuity and improvement, giving old fans something more, something better. If you want something else instead, I really would recommend to try out other games. I do not find your point valid.

25
logical.dust 
September 26, 2014 23:45:02

@ EmynonAred : ultimate skill is very hard to get, but it is also very powerfull. This actually introduce another meta game logic as you have to understand probabilities of what can happen and choose your skills very wisely if you want to maximise probability of getting ultimate. Yes it kinda sucks if u finally in the end not get right option, but feels more rewarding if you actually get it. That dude which allows you to forget something is very sufficient fix.

30
EnergyW The Hack
September 27, 2014 00:06:42

Well, the Ultimate Skill was not as pleasing as it could've been... but the skills needed to gain it were (mostly) good for each and every specific hero class.

30
Sempai_Mur The Dark
September 27, 2014 01:09:38

welp...randomization will not be ever perfect. The thing is just it's making the game much more unpredictable and killes the boreness of 'chosing the heck you want'. Yes, without random you can have a total control under the game. But it's the same as, for example, in RPG game you can choose a stats of new weapon you find instead of getting random. That increases control but turn on the gameplay into a total boredom. Just look onto H6.

30
Sempai_Mur The Dark
September 27, 2014 01:14:45

P.S. And those mentor guy in H5 who could reset a hero was a pretty nice decision. But to my mind the main pont of having such building is just getting the ultimate skill. Which was unreachable to my mind without knowing wheel skill perfectly and without tons of luck when getting random skills. Other points of wheeling skills are just a little bit cheaty imho. <3

11
Flairhead 
September 27, 2014 01:42:03

The building you're referring to in Heroes 5 is The Memory Mentor. It was introduced in the Tribes of the East exp. pack, fixed the most important flaw in H5. You paid X gold to forget a chosen skill, and got a new skill. However, it's a concept worth considering for H7 too imho. A really well guarded building somewhere in the middle of a map, where you can rearrange your skills in the later game stage could add some strategy, even if you have more or less full control of your skills on the way.

11
olof_reaper The Guardian
September 27, 2014 03:05:23

PART 1:

I was very happy reading the answers in this Q&A, but then I got to read that you would not return "random" skill leveling. Personally I think that is what killed replay-ability in H6 in a major way. I'm not saying that it's impossible to make varied enough skill trees to make replay-ability valid but it's very hard to do. The amount of balancing is going to be insane if you aren't going to get one single "best" skill path that everyone will follow.

11
olof_reaper The Guardian
September 27, 2014 03:15:42

I guess I should applaud you for not going the "safe way" and going back to what you know works and I will be the first one to congratulate you if you succeed. But sometimes you got to sit down and think about the fact that if it ain't broken then don't fix it. I don't want a remake of H3 as some now will say after this comments. I just don't want the mistakes of H6 repeated. I can honestly say that my faith in Ubisoft is none existing and my faith in heroes as a brand has been shaken since H6

29
Cleglaw The Councilor
September 27, 2014 03:34:25

i want to see my options and make a choose among them. if i want to do a diffent build, then i ll do so, its not dependent on luck but dependent on my will. thats way better to me. i dont see connection between replayability-randomly appaering unrelated skills.

what i get from this Q&A, is that you will improve H6 system to be richer like h5. i really admire this. a real big improvement on series if you guys manage to do it well.

29
Cleglaw The Councilor
September 27, 2014 03:39:54

also unrelated but please work on multiplayer. skill system is a thing but there is 2 big topic you should look into
1-fast playing multiplayer systems(sim turns or whatever)
2-intelligent, well made random map
there are too many sleeper heroes fans out there to buy your product and join our community. you will be suprised to see how many. example from myself: i got more than 20 friends playing-or played h3. they all loved that game, but they never bought h5, h6. they will make insta come back.

29
Cleglaw The Councilor
September 27, 2014 03:48:08

and in here, i see many players talking about uniqueness of random skills.. sorry but this is so wrong in general and not really showing the general gamer majority. this is a strategy game which has a potential to be the best game in current decade. you should make H7s strategy side even better than ever before to attract those new good gamers. this starts by getting rid of randomness in character progress. strategy gamers are intellgent gamers, they will wanna build up their hero temselves.

29
Cleglaw The Councilor
September 27, 2014 03:55:18

no chess game played by dice, if you know what i mean.

as i seen all you guys done for H7, i can easyly say that you guys are in right directions of development, in every topic in every single desicion that are showed to us.

thanks for your great work! please keep this good work we are happy & we are so hyped (:

25
logical.dust 
September 27, 2014 04:26:53

@ Cleglaw : dude you can not be more wrong. You probably dont understand and overall know nothing about why is HOMM so fun/addictive. HOMM is far more complex than just strategy game. Removing randomness from it is same as taking away dice from dungeons and dragons. Your opinion about this is definetly minority. Making HOMM only strategic/competetive game as H6 tried is worst idea ever IMHO.

14
xixo78 The Dark
September 27, 2014 06:14:50

_Personally I agree with therealoverzaz. The randomly choosing skills does not provide a good interplay with the warrior skills preferred characteristics of each player. We'll be at the mercy of luck. Regards to all!

14
xixo78 The Dark
September 27, 2014 06:15:04

_In fact the game should allow the unique abilities for each faction and upgrades within the chosen skills.

14
xixo78 The Dark
September 27, 2014 06:15:15

_Therefore I propose that the control is mixed.

14
xixo78 The Dark
September 27, 2014 06:15:27

_Democracy is still the best way found by humanity for the balance of the system. And reconcile is always the best way to resolve a conflict.

14
xixo78 The Dark
September 27, 2014 06:24:51

_I leave here a suggestion that was used in Heroes Online. On it, you have the possibility to reset the warrior skills at any time, and thus choose again which direction you want to give to the knight.

19
jshalky The Mighty
September 27, 2014 09:56:50

Good to hear that devs are actualy reading this comments :)
As for radomnes I think HV aproach was good. It offered much more replayibility a and if you were not satisfied you could use mentor. I personaly never used it. For me this system is still better that HVI but randomnes was better for me.
Also since you will have randomnes already implemented why not make it option to go full random if you want. Should not be that problematic to do it

29
Cleglaw The Councilor
September 27, 2014 12:04:06

@logical.dust

i am %100 percent sure on what i say. also i am an FRP player and DM myself. i have a concept cafe in Turkey gathering RPG players of all sorts including FRP players and card game players(MtG mostly), so i think i have every kind of information to comment about this.



and i am fan of the series since 1995. you enjoy this, i enjoy this too. but the series future lies in these unexplored areas. they already trying hard to make both RPG and Strategy sides of the game stronger.

29
Cleglaw The Councilor
September 27, 2014 12:11:15

And no, H6 didnt tried it hard. It was just a small, a baby step. Randomness in skill system is too much to accept. i welcome randomness on varius ranges like damage of the units, picked resource amounts and generated adventure maps. those are acceptable and good random sides of the game, cause they acctually contribute somethings in terms of gameplay. if i really dont want to leave my creatures damage output to chance, then i cast bless on him just like i sometimes do in H3.

29
Cleglaw The Councilor
September 27, 2014 12:16:27

if i am going on a scouting adventure, there sould be somethings not i calculated like amounts of resource i pick. because adventure, is by its own nature, is meeting with unexpected at some points. those are examples i can give about "cool randomness".

on the gameplay trailer i saw building/breaking bridges. i can easyly imagine with these kind of strategycal elements, H7 will be better then most of other heroes games. It has fun, it has adventure, it has desicions and it has own risks.

29
Cleglaw The Councilor
September 27, 2014 12:22:47

detailed lore-detailed strategy with good interface and some real progressive steps in multiplayer will take this series to the point even beyond of H3.

Making character progress random, is only helpful if you are a bad, unimaginative player. with last 5 years in gaming, people learned to make "builds" even better then before. provide them much more balanced and rich skill trees to choose and even you will suprise by the builds emerging from them.

19
NACH00OO The Councilor
September 27, 2014 13:47:14

Personally I loved random skills. It wasn't about being "forced" to try new things, but making the best of the situation. My optimal solution would be to have a skill system similar to h5, but with slightly more control. Perhaps have 3 skills/abilities as opposed to the 2/2 in h5.

After you've tried everything out, players will stick to a few core options. In h5, the hundredth time you play you still are at the mercy of fate and I loved it. Replayability to the max

25
logical.dust 
September 27, 2014 15:08:18

@ Cleglaw : If randomness of skilwheel is so much to accept how come you have been fan of series since 1995? It always was random and it always was good thing just like many other random stuff. What you say does not form believable group of facts. You are either trying to mislead others or being ignorant. Everyone loves being in controll, but price for that in HOMM is too great.

25
logical.dust 
September 27, 2014 15:19:45

@ Cleglaw : I explain it like this : part of fun of HOMM is skill wheel which choices are not subtle - some combinations are actually exeptionally overpowered (you can have mass slow on level 2 or tripple shooting balista with armor negation on lvl 4). If you get rid of random you can not have such option altogether. Balancing such complex system is impossible and you will end up with trivial solution - something very similar as H6 did have (balanced subtle choices and whole fun removed).

21
Sylv4n2005 The Destroyer
September 27, 2014 17:53:41

@LogicalDust HoMM VI felt like one of the most stripped down games in the series, due to how trivial racial and class differences were. I much preferred V to it. Only improvement VI brought was restoring the two hero classes per faction model, and I think the Blood/Tears path had some cool aspects to it.

21
Sylv4n2005 The Destroyer
September 27, 2014 17:55:47

" what i get from this Q&A, is that you will improve H6 system to be richer like h5. i really admire this. a real big improvement on series if you guys manage to do it well. "

Agreed.

25
logical.dust 
September 27, 2014 18:38:49

@ Sylv4n2005 :I agree about H6,also Tear/blood could be done well, however in H6 it gave you 1-2 additional abilities which u used perhaps once in combat due to cooldown and that was it.It seems to me too low benefit for complexity it introduced.I am also not fan of puting requirements on skills (you can not have this until level 10 or so) ... So plan is to give people controll and then immidiately take it away due to balance and allow only few paths in fact. Its hard, complicated and not better

30
GalaadleHaut The Hero
September 27, 2014 20:44:53

@therealoverzaz : Random skills + non-random perks ??

19
NACH00OO The Councilor
September 28, 2014 06:56:19

I've thought something similar galaadle. Random skills, but non random perks maintains an element of luck and randomness as well as giving players some control. It could be the perfect blend of both worlds. I'd give it a crack

30
GalaadleHaut The Hero
September 28, 2014 11:37:04

Actually the random skills + non random perks is something being asked for a long time by many fans. But devs seems to want to mess up H7 too... Believing H6 Full control tree was good and accepted my most is pure denial.

25
logical.dust 
October 01, 2014 19:26:30

@ therealoverzaz : I would like to point out also that having goal build and complete controll means every time very similar path to that goal. While when it is random paths are diferent and you still can more or less have same goal. Game is not about goal and victory, but it is about good time spent during game (about that path).Do you think that game should sacrifice fun aspect for victory condition?It sound to me that you didnt played HOMM very much if you find this core feature dissapointing

25
logical.dust 
October 01, 2014 19:36:42

@ therealoverzaz : Additionally ... I do not want to sound like a jerk, but calling Memory mentor a "building" definetly sounds bizare to me. "reset hero" is another too technical expresison. It feels to me as if you had ultimatelly no connection with this game at all (besides the professional one). Are you sure that your opinion about this is the one which matters?

25
logical.dust 
October 01, 2014 19:53:50

@ therealoverzaz:Also your last point - its not about trying new skill combinations,its about trying new ways to get them.It would be strange changing my skillorder every time if I want particular skills- there definetly is one best order of skills which after a while everyone would use.Pointless to use less effective order.Random system does not rob you of oportunity of choosing your final skills, it just make it more rewarding if you actually get it because it is not trivial task to accomplish

30
GalaadleHaut The Hero
September 26, 2014 21:02:16

5) As already mentioned, please reconsider. Randomness, even if it pisses off a few, is really part of HoM&M formula. I'd even go further to say it is a limit not to cross. Not being in full control on how your character develops makes you take the best of any situation. Is insanely good for replayability. It only needed fixing in H3-H5, problem was that some skills or perks were too lousy compared to some others. Just need good skills, good perks, and go full random, it is part of the formula.

19
rsurdal The Kreegan
September 26, 2014 21:14:32

Buhu... There not making Heroes 3.2. So what? We all know the skill system in Heroes 6 sucked. They know it, and we know it. However, choosing your skills is not a bad thing. If they make the different choices more viable options, this system would be the best ever.

30
GalaadleHaut The Hero
September 26, 2014 21:20:11

How so ?

19
rsurdal The Kreegan
September 26, 2014 21:37:31

Then you can get the skills you want, and can still go for different skills the next time you play.

30
GalaadleHaut The Hero
September 26, 2014 21:42:16

Until to the point you've made them all... You do know that the Random system is not totally random right ? It is only when you get your skills maxed out, and most of the time, regarding in which order you would improve skills and take perks or learn new basic, it works like a charm, sometimes better than others for greater enjoyment. Being forced to choose between Eagle Eye vs Mysticism is the only valuable complaint I've seen. Fix the skills, problem solved.

25
logical.dust 
September 26, 2014 22:01:36

@ rsurdal : skill system is quite complicated and having it all there make things confusing. Its easier to chose from 4 skills than form 100 (psychologically). Complexity of skill system should be even further increased, but if you show it all at once to player he will get overhelmed by choices. Random factor goes through whole game (morale, luck, resistance, many unit abilities, ...). There is no reason for trying to exclude it especially after H6.You can only guess what was the real fail there

30
GalaadleHaut The Hero
September 26, 2014 22:03:59

Thank you logical dust, I wanted to say that too but didn't knew how to phrase it

19
rsurdal The Kreegan
September 26, 2014 22:24:16

You guys made some excellent points. Maybe the old system is better, but I would not abandon all hope for this new skill system. I think the skill system could be done right, the way they intend to do it. I would love to see them improve the skill system, and not allways have to go back to the way things was in Heroes 3.

8
guest-i0CVm3BQ 
September 26, 2014 17:12:40

05) well that determines that, i'm not going to buy this game.
non-random skills what one of the worst thing about MMH 6. it made every game the same, because every one choose the same skills every time.
why are you doing this ???
Randomness was soooo much better, pls rethink this

19
iWellplay The Wanderer
September 26, 2014 17:19:46

Are you blind?, its writen that itsgona be combination of skill systems from HoMM V & VI..

Learn to read with understanding.

21
bjarked The Councilor
September 26, 2014 17:20:49

year it also forced you to try new stuff, in HMM6 i always choose the same skills every single time, wile in HMM5 i often had to change my tactic because i did not get the skills I wanted.

21
Eltheris The Wanderer
September 26, 2014 17:26:11

not propably forced if you wanna try something new you still pick what you want abaut random sometimes fate can screw you ;)

12
zarifahmed1995 
September 26, 2014 17:27:01

it will be a kind of mix between H6 (full control is in your hands) and H5 (skills are structured in a wheel). no, sir. you cant choose the same skill every time. learn to read please.

28
ramborusina 
September 26, 2014 17:56:41

@zarifahmed what are you talking about? It precisely means you can take the same skills every time. It's basically using the h5 skill-wheel and picking one skill at a time and you can always move it in same order. No randomness means players will stick to routines mostly and games will feel very monotonous in long-run. H6=worst skill-system.

Random skills was one of the best things for replaying value as matches didn't feel the same. One of the worst decisions they could've made in my mind :(

28
ramborusina 
September 26, 2014 18:04:21

Also combining h5 and h6 skill-systems means that you can easily get the ultimate-skills. This would mean toning down the ultimate skills or removing them all-together. Otherwise most people will just take the same required skills to get the ultimate-skill everytime :S

Horrible decision to take away the randomness. I really hope they re-think this.

12
zarifahmed1995 
September 26, 2014 18:14:48

rambousina...i think you are misunderstanding. you can choose the skills. but the abilities of the skills will be different. say a skills has 6 abilities(example luck can have abilities like magic resistance, resorcefulness, soldier's luck). but you can only choose 3 randomly given abililities. so getting the ultimate skill is hard as always. i hope you understand.

28
ramborusina 
September 26, 2014 18:29:20

@zarifahmed but you can still choose the same 3 always to get to that ultimate skill. Or take the same 3 skills that suit you. It makes it incredibly repetitive. In h5 you either got one of the skills or abilities you wanted or you didn't. If you didn't you had to change strategy, try something different and learn different tactics and ways to play the game. Now it will become like in h6, choosing the same skills in same order game after game and that's the problem for me.

11
VahallaXII 
September 26, 2014 18:36:55

Well, I think that's not gonna be a problem. You don't have to choose the same thing if you want to try something else then it's your choice. For me I prefer this one because I can create some build on my own not just let the game force you to choose it. The thing is, I hope that all skills are interesting and effective enough so that it is worth trying and no over powered skills.

19
iWellplay The Wanderer
September 26, 2014 18:39:12

Wait for article about skill system its gona explain a lot to you people.

19
iWellplay The Wanderer
September 26, 2014 18:40:25

Cause know you all flame system which you guys don't how it will even work.

14
yjesus45 The Magnificient
September 26, 2014 18:44:53

They are taking the IDEAS from previous games, not copy-paste. I'm sure that the Ultimate skill will either toned down or removed completely, which isn't a bad idea by itself. The randomness just adds frustration to the game. Before Heroes 6, I used to reload constantly when I leveled just to get the skill I wanted, that's just stupid.

8
guest-i0CVm3BQ 
September 26, 2014 18:54:15

well some of us play against friends and it get pretty boring pretty fast then we are always choosing the same skills. because there will always the specific skills that fits your play still, and if you just can choose then what makes you change your build from game to game?

14
Pavijan359 The Faithful
September 26, 2014 19:09:28

I think that people are forgetting that even with randomized skills like in Heroes 3, you were ALWAYS trying to build the same hero, For example : I always needed Earth Magic, Logistics, Luck, Offense etc.. Always the same. Only thing what randomness added was a chance to screw you in taking some of the skills, by giving you some worthless shit like Eagle Eye instead.

14
Pavijan359 The Faithful
September 26, 2014 19:09:42

There wasn't anything strategically different that is making me to adapt, I was just gimped, pure and simple. Problem with H6 wasn't that you could pick your skill, it was that they wasn't balanced properly, so you always picked the most powerful ones. If they give us more equally good paths to choose, it would be most ideal Heroes skill system ever.

22
Kimarous The Magnificient
September 26, 2014 19:10:59

+100 Pavijan359

19
rsurdal The Kreegan
September 26, 2014 19:43:44

If they do a better job then H6, the skill system will be good. If there are more viable choices of skilles to learn, its not a bad thing you get to choose what you want.

19
rsurdal The Kreegan
September 26, 2014 19:49:43

Also the magic system will be more like heroes 3, and 5. Primary attributes are back, which means the skill system has to change.

3
krabas888 
October 01, 2014 16:48:06

"But in the end we decided to let you choose what skills / abilities you want to unlock" - it will end up with playing game always the same way - boring.
And if "No" for random map generator - I will not look at this site anymore.

30
GalaadleHaut The Hero
September 27, 2014 10:43:48

Randomness cannot go. Choosing your skills is not the Heroes way. It works great for other RPGS but not in Heroes. I will be very disappointed if no Random. I'd like to hear the arguments, how can Limbic be mislead like this...

25
logical.dust 
September 27, 2014 17:35:40

I would like to see the arguments as well. Also why not put this into a vote? It definetly is more usefull than voting about faction lineups. Based on what therealoverzaz said it seems however that decision already been made, but anyway our comments are welcome regardless ... I have to say that I do not have feeling that our feedback is considered very seriously.

25
RobvD84 The Mad
September 27, 2014 19:48:41

Well for starters they should comment here more then on HC, since this is the official site, just like the Ubi forums is the official forum, and i don't see them there either. I haven't seen them respond to some of those ideas posted on there. So yeah i got the same feeling as you logical.dust.
Also i agree with you GalaadleHaut. Why do they feel the need to change that much? Just keep most of the things intact, and then just add new things, I know it all have to be balanced, but still.

30
GalaadleHaut The Hero
September 27, 2014 21:07:29

A poll was made in HC during August, fans there that wish for non-random are currently less than 10%.
A lot of discussion has been taken all around the forums regarding this issue.
The best and most straight-forward proposition IMO I've seen is Random skills + non random perks. This could work, no ?

11
yogikurn 
September 27, 2014 07:33:35

Best skill tree (wheel) ever was Heroes V, i'd never seen anything like it, it's like coming from another world. I'd played 1000+ hours on Heroes V. Spent only 100+ on VI.

Although, while waiting for Heroes VII to emerge, i'll be taking another shot at VI, plus the Shades of Darkness expansion.

11
Flairhead 
September 27, 2014 00:31:49

Heroes 5 was great, Heroes 6 was awful imho.

1. Hopefully there will also be a return of the rotating camera like in H5.
2. Possibility of negative luck and morale - sounds fair
4. The return of attack, defense, knowledge and spellpower - sweet
7. Townbuilding like H5 - sweet
10. Spellcasting like H3 and H5 - sweet

Tip: Do not mess up the battle screen like in H6: If you're fighting 3 stacks of e.g. hunters, you should be able to see when each of them will have their turn, just like in H5.

12
Kruse999 
September 26, 2014 23:23:52

I agree, I was hoping also they would go back to HOMM V system.

I really liked the faction specific skills to distinguish each faction aside from the creatures, and I really liked the randomness combined with choice (you can still select betweeen 3 skills).

For me, the replayability of Heroes VI was by far the lowest of all HOMM games. I felt that all might heroes, or magic heroes ended up as cookie cutter with more or less the same build (it was clear which skills are better than others).

20
Royami-kun The Faithful
September 27, 2014 00:04:42

I agree. I still can't even make myself to end several H6 campagnes since 2011 when I bough that game, no talking about replayability at all.

13
Wo0olfy The Mysterious
September 26, 2014 22:47:03

>Having control over skills is too boring. You.ll tend to have the same strategy either for Might or Magic (like in H6).
Randomness or some from both is the best option . But NOT full control!

11
NecroSK 
September 26, 2014 19:11:05

5)
Disappointed, very disappointed. ... I was so happy before when i heard that skill system is coming back from H5. ... The randomness was so good for re-playability. And very good for new players, because they weren't overwhelmed with whole skill tree(wheel). In H6 you had to literally just read all of the possible skills for hours before you could actually play the game. And then it was always the same build over and over. Sad, very sad indeed.

29
Cleglaw The Councilor
September 26, 2014 19:23:40

...and also bad for experienced players. i want to see my options and make a choose among them. if i want to do a diffent build, then i ll do so, its not dependent on luck but dependent on my will. thats way better to me. i dont see connection between replayabilit-randomly appaering unrelated skills.

what i get from 5, is that they will improve H6 system to be richer like h5. i admire this.

h5 skills were cool. h5 skills meeting with h6 interface-progress, is the best thing i can imagine.

11
NecroSK 
September 26, 2014 19:45:16

I gues its just personal taste in this case. It would be interesting if developres made a voting of this. To see how many people prefer the random system and how many people prefer full control.

19
jshalky The Mighty
September 26, 2014 20:15:49

I have to agree. For me part of heroes was always ability to adapt to my current skillset. I think it make game much more enjoyable and replyable . I realy hope devs will change their decision regarding skill system. Even thou it is still improvement in comparisom to MMH6

25
logical.dust 
September 27, 2014 01:01:00

@ Cleglaw : Without random skillwheel whole game is more or less predictable. In H1-H5 every time you get level up there is surprise. This and many other random events make the game what it is. You get this magical, mysterious gameplay experience which is not in any other game. Also if you are experienced player you more or less will get what you want and skill wheel randomness does not affect you at all. Only order of skills will be diferent most of times. Replayability it is. Randomness FTW.

8
zoos85 
October 03, 2014 05:37:58

I play HoMM 1 when I'm 7-years-old and now I'm 30, so I'm a longtime fan of this seri. I can't finish the H6 campain just because it too boring. All main heroes in the end have same skills. It's awkful to rebuild the new hero when you know for how and what will happen. Please keep the random skill, or at least make a vote to decide this.

30
GalaadleHaut The Hero
October 03, 2014 10:52:55

No vote !!! HoMM formula is random skills and the devs have to take responsibility for this. If they make it nonrandom they mess up, and hopefully they will realize it and correct it in H8.....

30
GalaadleHaut The Hero
October 03, 2014 10:53:36

Though really, how hard would it be to make an option in menu ? : random skills Yes/No

12
karin003 
September 29, 2014 12:29:26

Best solution for skills:
- H5-like skillwheel
- Random skills
- Non-random perks

19
NACH00OO The Councilor
September 28, 2014 07:46:12

@therealloverzaz you've said that opinion is fiercely divided over random vs non random skills. I'm a random fan, but surely there's a happy medium? I'd be willing to give it a shot. Please don't repeat h6 skill system, it was terrible

30
GalaadleHaut The Hero
September 28, 2014 10:35:12

@therealloverzaz : with all due respect this an awful decision. Random is a core element of HoM&M addictive formula. It's always an excitement to discover what will pop up when you level up. It's always interesting having to adapt when you don't get what you want. It's always been there in every successful Heroes game.

19
NACH00OO The Councilor
September 28, 2014 11:09:58

Make skills random but not abilities, give 6 total options instead of 4, do something I haven't thought of. I understand a desire for more control but that's not heroes. Kinda feel like we're getting the control option cause you're the lead designer and that's your preference

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