What’s up, Ubisoft? It’s been a while.
I think the facts have been misinterpreted by you and some community members. Our "Sandro flashmob" wasn't just the way to mock you or developers (especially developers since they are just doing job which you can accept or reject). We had to do this because there was no dialog between the comminity and publishers, which chose by themselves to develop the game with community participation.
We didn't force you to do this and we didn't even ask for that. You could just make this game behind the doors and show us the result. And we'd give our feedback with money, showing you the success level in sales figures.
But you've chosen the hard way. But as I've said many times since summer 2014 you won't handle it. You are clearly not flexible enough and definitely not ready to change major issues inside the development process. Instead you gave us a lot of useless votings.
I mean votings which don't change anything important. E.g. lineup votes, votes for "how's the city should look like", content of collectors edition: t-shirt or panties etc.. How is this all any important for the game, I don't know. Even lineups is a minor thing which is important only for tactical part of the game but won't affect the gameplay in general. So all what you gave us for all that time is just an illusion of influence: the possibility to affect minor things.
When the most important things were inarguable. When you #GURS I was doubting if I was thinking right and I've got a small hope that you are listening to the feedback and so on and maybe we can keep the dialog with Ubisoft-team to improve the game together and so on.
And then you gave us spiderpolis with recycled stuff and said that that's ok which caused a lot of complaints (constructive BTW), and you just didn't give a luck about that, keeping ignoring us. Result came quickly: #GROS riot.
The reason of that riot wasn't the fact that we just have been upset about necropolis lineup (and we WERE upset), but the main reason was the COMPLETE absence of the dialogue between the Team and the Community. We were discussing this thread for couple of days and no single luck was given again about our complaints. There wasn't any single blue comment from the developers which explained WHY did you decide to do so IF that would be possible to change something and if NOT, then WHY.
That was just as simple as it sounds: appear inside the thread and give few words, answer few questions. But you didn't do that. That caused some extensive spam and flame from our side which wasn't that constructive as previous things, right?
But what happened? - YOU REACTED and announced that lich and vampire will be reworked. Ok, not 100% of what we've asked for but at least it's something. And things calmed down because you've stepped in and talked to us.
If you don't remember, I'll remind you that I even made a small parody about that situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky62krnnZL4
The main thought of it wasn't pocking you or something but to show in an ironic way the problems of communications between the community which you invited to help and Ubisoft team. I work in gamedev (own mobile games dev company) and I know how it's tough to gather and systematize the feedback. But as I've said before, you've chosen this way by your own.
But with that I've got a hope that we actually can somehow affect your decisions at least partially. But the way of communication I've considered as inappropriate of course because spam and flame aren’t tools for proper opinions exchange. And I had a hope that you've made right decisions about that for the future. My thoughts strengthened with implementation of some moderation here which gave me a thought that there will be some person here which can give a feedback from Ubi-Team.
Then you’ve gave us some mechanics details as a skillwheel, abilities and stuff. Unlike you claim, the community isn’t divided about that: watch the most upvoted posts in each thread about the skills and skillwheel and try to find among them at least one with support of current concept. Someone from the Ubisoft-team claimed that "complainers are more vocal but the community is divided at this point". Can you please show the source of such data?
If you make statements like this, you probably have some sociological researches or something, then why not to show them to us, proving we are wrong? As for me, I can just believe my eyes that the TOTAL majority of the fanbase wasn't supporting the idea of such "controlled" mechanics and it was TOO DAMN obvious to argue with this. And who prevented supporters to say their word? No one did. They are just too few and their voice was too silent.
And you can visit any other web-site which is heroes-dedicated and see the same statistics by yourself again and again.
So we were discussing in a casual way all this problems expecting someone from the team coming to talk to us but no one did. (Q&A from Limbic Jaelle has formed its questions before the controversial article)
And you can visit any other web-site which is heroes-dedicated and see the same statistics by yourself again and again.
So we were discussing in a casual way all this problems expecting someone from the team coming to talk to us but no one did. (Q&A from Limbic Jaelle has formed its questions before the controversial article). And what was your next move? SURPRISE, FATHERLUCKER: you've started sales with exclusive beta when prepurchase. What did you expected? What kind of reaction?
So yes, I invented #SUR - "Show Us Respect" hashtag, trying to show you what's the problem: the problem is an attitude when you pretend that you develop this game with community and in real you just don't pay any attention on our talks. The problem is not you are not giving us what we demand but is that you don't even bother yourself to talk to us and explain us that you can't do something because of the reason X.
With that I believed that you really can't change all problems until release.
And my main point and request was an open beta for everyone (at least for each SC member, at least with later than prepurchasers' access), or/and an open Beta which will give an opportunity to try the game before purchasing. And I've asked @Ubi-Nox personally about this issue and I've got no answer. Welp...
Then Sandro stuff began. Of course there a lot of new subjective and unrealistic demands (in my opinion) appeared (bring Jon Van Caneghem back, fire Erwan le Breton etc.).
But that only proves that we were many and we were different and we had our differences in vision BUT we were united about the thing that you don't show us any respect and as an answer to our complaints you spit us to the face with opening the preorder. And stay away from talking to us.
Then you publish the answer on previous Q&A. You claim there that opinion about the randomness and skillwheel based on connections between skills and all is SUBJECTIVE and you don't share it.
Therefore you claimed that ALL PREVIOUS games before heroes 6 (which was the most boring and useless chapter among all heroes series (don't even argue with that)) were SUBJECTIVELY good and you don't think that h2, h3, h5 don't deserve to develop their concept, huh? This kind of flawless logic pisses me a lot. YES, I agree that H5 SW had some flaws and it wasn't perfect and there might be some improvements made. For not saying it naked, I'll put some quick samples of how could it be implemented:
-You could fix probability of skills and abilities which appears with lvl up.
- You could make more that 4 skills available with lvl up to choose from.
- You could implement some mechanism to exchange useless skill into i.e. characteristics +point.
And with all that you just don't want to admit that replayability of heroes based mostly at random. Randomness is a thing which made each round and game as a new one and you had to be flexible and adopt your strategy according to circumstances.
And "controlled" one will lead you to choosing same,the most effective build for chosen faction and chosen hero.Forcing you to play one same round again and again and again.
But all that doesn't matter, even pretty rude tone of Q&A answers.As I've said, you can't handle this type of development. And I'm not gonna invest that amount of time into the website.Now it has no point because you don't accept your mistakes and you don't listen to the community. You have a "vision" and good luck with it.
Is not it worth looking at this site on the other side. Maybe he was conceived in the form of the player's choice of secondary aspects of the game, rather than recycling it important aspect. You are all somehow decided that can influence this game! And it seems that you are wrong, because your actions have not led to anything. You just eskolko days people did not give a quiet life. Because you could not even sounded the opinions of others. So think about what you've done in fact.
Такой большой, а в сказки веришь XDDD
Как раз наоборот,я в сказки не верю,а вы почему-то их себе надумали в большооом количестве.
@Sempai, you are a wise man and the voice of reason. All you said is true, and also on a considerated tone. Too bad they probably won't listen to it
i just want to say a couple: please dont leave sempai, and anyone who reading and considering leaving. i agree with almost every points, but theres still a developement ongoing, and they may need our support. we can still make difference about future articles and give them some better enviorement to do their job by pre-ordering and acting nice. you have every right to leave and my words are just depend on my personal designer experience and beliefs but i still ask you to stay. recondier pls.
>>i just want to say a couple: please dont leave sempai, and anyone who reading and considering leaving. i agree with almost every points, but theres still a developement ongoing, and they may need our support
Thank you, Cleglaw for unindifference and I don't see any problem in coming back if I'll see changes in an attitude of Ubisoft. And we will meet on Heroescommunity though ;) For now that will be my main platform :)
>>>and give them some better enviorement to do their job by pre-ordering and acting nice.
Well, no, pal. I pre-ordered h6 Deluxe for 1 billion euro as well and I don't see any development for now so I consider you as being to kind and a little bit romantic. My opinion: if the horse if dead, get off. So I don't believe our charity for ubisoft will help. It will just stimulate them to shortage the development period and milk the franchise as any other which they own.
Why there is still no "blue" answer from devs? Is one of the best opinions ever written on this page.
right, they are obviously listening because,
- we get a choice of two factions out of four, when 15 years ago in Heroes 3 we were given all four from the outset,
- we get dog and pony show votes for army lineups hand picked by the developers with no ability to influence said lineups,
- we get to vote on whether a moon will appear in X crap town screen or which overpriced figurine we won't even buy,
- we are eventually given a random skill option they more than likely had prepared well in advance to begin with,
- we are left to violently demand new assets for the Necropolis, which would have been the norm in any other Heroes game,
- we are expected to applaud for reversal of atrocious decisions which should never have been made in the first place,
sure, makes sense lol
no, these people don't listen, as many of your VIP colleagues have iterated and reiterated elsewhere before, they confess themselves they have no vision of any substance, and yet they continue,
in my opinion they have shown time and time again that they are a fundamentally fraudulent group misappropriating the Heroes name and mishandling its limitless potential,
to my mind they have no love for the series as fans, no legitimate claim to its legacy beyond the money their CEO spent to obtain the IP, and what dignity should we afford to pretenders who don't know their arse from their elbow?
Erwinner, I just love you. I laugned the first time for this night xD
-they cant offer 9 factions, but still they had a great idea allowing you to vote on what you want.
-you never knew line-ups before a game getting released. and still even more, you are given chance to pick a line-up combination from 3 options. yet you complain because you didnt picked every one single unit. your reaction, is a very arrogant one. you are not a developer. you are just a guy.
-you wont buy maybe, but some will do, my brother loved it and he is 30 years old heroes fan.
-same arrogancy, plus underestimating attitude to make yourself sound right. in fact it was much more then a moon vote, but im sure even you know that. its about general atmospher and theme, as they had told in related article. they didnt even need to tell this imho, but still they told, and yet you are acting like you dont understand or read it.
-they didnt want random skill. this is their perspective and even i, and old fan liked it. majority may hate it or not we dont know this, what we know is people on mmh7, dont like it. truth may be not like this: an example: HC doesnt reflect the votes of community, even it sometimes say exact opposite of majority votes. sorcerer lich gets chosen at hc, everyone comments on it like the most logical choice but here you are community choses priest, the least one in HC poll.
-they communicated at necro line-up change, and thats a good thing, i dont know how can even find something to complain on that one. good luck with other games when you dont like and change something. try to login forums and yell at devs, im pretty much sure it wont effect anything at all cause let me remember you- you are just a guy-
the most saddest part is you get upvotes just because you act like an ignorant-arrogant fool, despite all the current talks ongoing on.
you are disgusting.
be a grown man, and contain your anger before it turns into a total bullsh*t rude comment. and all upvoters of him, shame on you. seriously.
I mean, kinda your style is epic. You just put this as a God. Pure truth, can't agree more.
>>all upvoters of him, shame on you. seriously.
C'mon, man. You may dislike the form of his replics but the content is pure truth.
>> try to login forums and yell at devs, im pretty much sure it wont effect anything at all cause let me remember you- you are just a guy-
Took part for a long-long time Diablo 3 development. Man, there was no need to yell on someone. All constructiveness has been considered there. Several times community manager even contacted my through PM to specify some things. And here we have anything similar. Why shall I respect someone who doesn't respect me?
you talked from your heart without going rude in your post. you were also right on your most point(maybe all even? i personally agree with all of them except one. anyways) this is a respectable and worthy thing. and the way you point things, were critical.
and just look what this guy do, he talks like some dishonest evil and (sorry if i offend anyone)alzheimer politician.
ofc, i get mad that we dont get 9 factions, but we get to comment on what situation really is. this isnt 99'
if you still upvote that comment dispite its shallowness and rudeness, you should feel shame, sorry to say.
cleglaw my friend, I freely admit I am a disgusting arrogant rotter, and the fact I get upvotes is just testament that Ubisoft are so bad they are considered even worse than me lol
Clew, as I've said, I don't much care about decisions. I could deal with skiping this chapter as it is if I wouldn't like it but here was jut pure ignore and pretending "NOTHING HAPPEND LAWL, ME NOT ME". That's... not good. And you are saying that despite this fact we shall "support them, buying the game". If the farmer is not good, shall you support him, buying milk which is spoiled with the vain hope that after couple of years he will make good milk? I don't think so. ;)
- "Let us say that it's time for Dorothy to ride the dark whirlwind and leave the gentle light-hearted fantasy of Axeoth behind. Ahead lies a world of blood and shadows, of jagged blades and voracious flames, of sweet lies and bitter poison... That's where we're taking you, and the best part is, you'll gonna ask for more."
- "We have a feeling that some people truly believe that more complexity and constraints in a system makes it better, however, we don’t share this belief. [...] We believe that means that the design [of Heroes V] is flawed."
- "You propose to the fans what they want and what they want is what they’ve played before with more beautiful visuals."
you want to sample the definition of arrogance, look no further lol
>>if you still upvote that comment dispite its shallowness and rudeness, you should feel shame, sorry to say.
I upvoted him. That's his style. May be offensive, but I'd rather call it satirical. As I've said, Cleg, all of us (including ubisoft), want a good game but in his/her/its own way. And, naturally, we are using different tools. People are different so as tastes. That's not a big deal. I never mocked someone for different PoV in case of constructiveness. Erwinner is constructive enough.
>>we are left to violently demand new assets for the Necropolis, which would have been the norm in any other Heroes game
Heroes II took a lot of things straight from Heroes I, and both of them reused tons of assets from main Might & Magic games.
Also, like Cleglaw already pointed out, we never got even that much influence on NWC games, as we have here.
@Cleg, you are fine person, but you are looking at this from emotional side. But this is business. Like some guy on HC wrote yesterday "I have a stress of speaking with clients all the month but when I get the paycheck, I have a smile on my face and I'm ready for one more stressfull month". That's how it's done. Don't you think that ubisoft could say like "Hey, they are people, let's give them beta access. Or let's make the price fair: 30$!" But nope. They won't do this. They are pragmatic.
Also, upvotes mean nothing. Masses are usually too ignorant and prejudiced to make an informed judgement, quite unfortunately.
i rather not to effect their morale badly, cause they still have lots of work to do. and like you pointed, its all about us, not devs. we are trying to shape h7 as much as we can towards good. so my decision and attitude to support them, is still about big picture. micro may change but the goal is same, i want a h7 to be as much as good.
your example about farm is a weak one imo, and im not going that path, cause my examples may be weak too. im just gonna stick with plain straight text style.
so as we shall be. If the product is bad, I'm not gonna buy it. There's no way for making charity in favor of companies with billion's capitalization. There's no place for emotions. We all love this game to be good and I did my best to put my penny here but didn't work, they don't need us and they've shown it. For me it's clear. If they will reconsider their methods, then things may change. For now everything is wrong, buddy.
I respect the creators of this awesome series, but why would I have any automatic obligation to support a random publisher and developer who had literally nothing to do with that original creation, and are debatably actively involved in dragging it down so far it might never be able to get back up? lol
nope, Ubisoft and Limbic have to earn my loyalty and respect, and so far since Heroes 6 they have done very, very little to warrant any of that IMO
>>Masses are usually too ignorant and prejudiced to make an informed judgement, quite unfortunately.
If it would be true, Diablo 3 wouldn't have any success for example. What are you call "masses"? We are small group of people. Masses are silent. And now you state that inside it the minority is right. That's sort of twisted democracy.
"this is his style" is not an acceptable reason to allow him talk like this. just imagine same done to you. and im not even talking about face-to-face situation. also i need to say, being on internet doesnt make it justify. and also thahts nowhere near being constructive: his shallow comments doesnt hit the mark because it shallow and ignores other prespectives of topics knowingly. second, he is not making any suggestions or offering ideas to make it better, and all he has said was said before.
>>>i rather not to effect their morale badly, cause they still have lots of work to do.
So that's why you shall support my leaving. For now I've been grumpy complainer 90% of the time. For now I like just some arts, orcs town and academy units. And I've said that that was cool. But other important stuff is so whong. How can I lie to others and to myself claiming it's any good? So for their sake I'd rather go and complain at some other place keeping their touchy feelings safe.
>>just imagine same done to you
Can you imagine that I imagine that? ;) I've been called "troll, provocateur, lier, noob, retard" and stuff just for having opposite opinion. That's ok. If you are not hundred dollars there'll be already many people which will dislike you. I can't find anything that much offensive in Erwinner's words. He didn't use explicit language and stuff. Just slightly rude. Adult person would accept this, Clew. Don't worry too much for their feelings ;)
you have posted worse material than this yourself lol, but hey, I've seen countless people offer legitimately constructive feedback both polite and substantial, which was summarily ignored (and most likely not even read) by the team lol
not an obligation, you have every right to leave and not support, but to me its different. i want to save the future of series from a newbie developer team. i want stability. i copy/pasted those links because i dont want to make spam by writing again.
>>i want stability.
Stably bad is also stability, Cleg ;) That's what I'm afraid a lot.
>>>>I've been called "troll, provocateur, lier, noob, retard" and stuff just for having opposite opinion.
i never said something like that or seen you like that. and i have nothing againts complaintments, but you got to understand what i dont like: fanatic shallow comments fooling even the author himself. those are kind of harmful comments. your were never like that. complaints with logical sense is probably most important content of mmh7 page, so automatically you are worthy for us.
>>> fanatic shallow comments fooling even the author himself. those are kind of harmful comments.
@Cleg, with a proper desire, they could grab constructivity even from the most offensive criticism. The thing is they have no such desire. Pity thing.
And regarding satiric comments (which The Erwinner is actually famous for), I like it. It's harsh but it shows all flaws of the system exaggerating them and making more visible. As I've answered in previous comment, they've had to think before.
they should understand that this type of development could bring tons of criticism. And if I were ubi I'd listen to the community and I'd close comments section, open community section with hardcore moderation preventing mocking of ubi team and I'd stop to pretend as people can make an influence. That would be fair. But they didn't listen, did they? ;)
TheErwinner, great posts, rec'd everything! :-)
@Cleglaw: You follow the wind. Where it blows, there you go. I am sorry for you.
i dont mean to disrespect but.. did you even read? how did you come to that conclusion at all? since when wind changed, and am i really following such strong wind? where did you see anyone like me commenting in this style? im not on any side right now are you aware of that? i have no crowd also, i had one, i volunteerly joined and left it... so seriously how did you came up to that conclusion? anyways, i think i dont need further explanation, please read.
You used to belong the "movement"? What happened that you left?
we did our best, but the battle was lost. case closed. main difference between you and me is, i try to not stuck in past, and try to serve for the greater good.
Funny. You will support something you disagree with, you fighted against.
do you have a better plan?
Just play the old titles we loved so much. We don't need UBI cheap crap.
how about both? (: im playing hotseat h3 at office, writing in mmh7, and working for a week. not a bad way to pass time imo.
смотрю насос по откачке денег, заработал на полную катушку, браво!
Ага, коммерсанты хреновы.
You can pay only 15$ for half of the franchise.
But I guess you'd complain about them being greedy, even if they decided to gave away these games for free. =)
if there were no heroes 6, we would not have complained...;-)
@ Sligneris : most of people here already own all of those games (especially those who they are interested in). So 15$ for buying same stuff I already own? That doesnt sound greedy from them at all.
This Week Friday reveal
Ça serait étonnant que demain il y ait une news car c'est un jour férié en France. Mais je peux me tromper 😉
i think people should deciede to support or stop spamming. i was part of sandro movement but it ENDED and people cant understand that somehow. there is absoloutly no point in complaining anymore on skillwheel etc etc.
designing is not a simple task, morale effects the quality of product. they allready showed what they will change and what they not. if we still want to play h7, we should stop saying same things over and over because its depressing for them, and for the game to come.
You consider my post as a spam? Pity. It wasn't supposed to be it ;)
Sempai_Mur, don't worry. You have done what should be done much earlier. Excellent job.
we agree or not they made their design decisions. leave now or show your support. i wont blame you if you lost your interest in game, because i lost too. BUT as a fan of series who got bored of constant dev team changes and uncertain future, i ll support this process even if it means wasting time-throwing money to garbage. honestly ven if %99 posibility of fail doesnt atter for me, i ll still try for the %1 if this is what it is.
and please dont be sure about everything, even as a fan of 20+ years, im not sure how things will turn out in the end, so theres no point in rudely bashing the decisions they made. cant we just hope and support for the best?
I am sorry but if nothing changes it will never be over. Just like Sempai_mur said if they talked with us, communicated with us more there wouldn't be as much rage as there is now. And for me this "strategic marketing" is verry bad timed. Ofcourse charity is always good, but they could have done this at the start of H7 too.
at last, i get this out of my chest.
no sempai, i was talking generally, dont be offended.
Hope is a mother of fools.
i agree with you guys, but im talking about NOW, the present time. we dont really know whats going about game or dev team but we are constantly judging them. we should look for future.
I'm not offended at all, Cleg, just you are talking in absolutions while I don't. I don't say I won't accept their reject but I can't accept such behavior. This isn't normal. And I don't argue their decisions. And I don't see any spam here for you to complain.
>>we dont really know whats going about game or dev team but we are constantly judging them
I don't judge at all. It's their franchise and money. I can decide to buy it or not. But I was looking for demo or beta. If there will be some, then i'll take a look. If there won't be, I'll skip this chapter. It's that simple.
P.S. Limbic is away of us, I don't even mention them because Ubi is their client and we are not. They are targeted to satisfy ubisoft, not us. And what is ubisoft targeted for, I don't know.
Hm I can understand your point @Cleglaw, but don't agree with it. After all, it's our right to complain as fans of something that is being murdered in front of our eyes. Maybe you are right and ther is still a light in the end of the tunnel. Stronghold turned out prety good. But some basic game mechanics may ruin it. I don't say if we keep complaining, will change anything for H7, but maybe it will do for the next game
UBI targets little newbies, kids like Lighty.
>>P.S. Limbic is away of us, I don't even mention them because Ubi is their client and we are not. They are targeted to satisfy ubisoft, not us.
this is exactly what my guess is. my another guess is, they want to do more, they see us, they know whats going on, but they cant go outside of ubisofts desires. same happens to me from time to time. with more designing skills+time menegement+experience designers can make much better gams and they can have more freedom.
We need to criticize when necessary. Without the criticism, there would be no improvement/development. They need feedback. Without feedback, they are clueless about their own progress and place they hold.
what i believe is, limbic will get better in time if they stay as devs of this series, and all will get better in next expensions/games whatever.
ofc its our right to complain and we did at our best to make it loud and clear. and they(ubi? lmbic? or both?) showed that our message has been delivered. topic about skillwheel is unfortunately closed and we can only make difference in future things presented to us. thats why im also staying, without you, everyone will be just like "OK whatever".
The thing is that they got lots of feedback and basically haven't done almost anything essential about it.
"The thing is that they got lots of feedback and basically haven't done almost anything essential about it."
Feedback and criticism - yes. That's not only welcome, but needed, if not necessary.
However some people went too far and couldn't form their opinions without vulgarity, insults, not to mention flooding and spam. Let me just say, as a VIP fan, that this was noticed and that in my opinion some people should consider apologizing for their behavour. Even if you completely do not agree with the decisions and really think they will ruin the game, this is not an excuse to be an a-hole.
i agree with Sempai's last great text down below, but i also agree with AcidDragon. we(sandro movement) were rude but it had reasons and not pop up from nowhere, and it sadly consisted spams, flames, rude comments, and also some unrealistic expectations. but it was a reacton rewarded before with GURS. even if you tame a dog, you dont do that kind of process. if you reward it after bad behaviours, it may think that "this is the way to accomplish things", even dogs act this way.
@Acid: That is what happens when you completely ignore long-term fans who have devoted a lot of time to give the feedback. UBI has to learn how to deal with the fanbase first. Look at CD Projekt. They set a good example of how to deal with the fanbase. They are towards fans, not themselves and their own vision of what things should be now, even though they have always been different and that is exactly what people adored. I can see no logic in their attitude to the council/fanbase.
so noone is innocent, my point is, we as fans, should show support and devs should show themselves to communication, and stay away from ignoring fans. sometimes actions speak louder then words, and sudden closed beta+pre-order decision with no sc in formula is the best example of that. people spent thier months and much more to this game, in a beutiful way or not this is the truth.
everyone should reconsider what are they doing before this train completely goes off track.
CD Projekt listens to their fans. They are capable of learning from their own mistakes. UBI claims to have learnt from H6, which completely contradicts with their actions. They say one thing and do the opposite. They say H7 will be "classic", but based the game on H6 etc. They don't listen at all. They just do what they planned themselves and that's it. And the councilors have become useless guinea pigs. No wonder they can't hold their anger anymore.
I believe the game mechanics were already implemented before this council even started. Thus, there is no chance to change it becasue they have invested a lot of time and money in it. I don't know why this happens again. Maybe they didn't gather the feedback? Maybe they just care about their own vision because they think they know all and their own vision is simply the best. That is very egoistic and should have no place in any bussiness - they are digging their own grave.
totally agree with merenefere, maybe we went too far sometimes, but UBI did the same..
devs should consider, what they want...
their own vision of the hmm or the funs satisfy..
To make my step in the right direction: i'm apologize for my spamming and other harmful behavior, but i keep my feedback and criticism, i can see the potential in h7, and i have also doubts about some parts of the game, i think there is no reason to limit how the player can play the game (fixed skilltree of classes)
@Cleglaw: Why do you claim we should blindly support the devs (servants of UBI)? What makes you think so? I can't understand.
As far as listening to the fans, let me just remind you.
- two factions were voted by the fans
- two army line-ups were voted
- several other votes
- fans wanted a random skill system - Ubi/Limbic listened and did it
- fans wanted better Necropolis units - they got them
- since Heroes 6 fans wanted mage guilds, war machines, 7 resources, caravans and many other things and Limbic/Ubi listened.
With the skill wheel they decided not to change their minds, yes.
But do not say they don't listen.
AcidDragon, there is nothing to be sorry about. The article about SkillWheel philosophy and statements from the past clearly show that devs do not only try to twist facts but they also LIE. In my life I do not accept liars, shufflers and ignorants.
"since Heroes 6 fans wanted mage guilds, war machines, 7 resources, caravans and many other things and Limbic/Ubi listened."
@AcidDragon, already told you: the problem is not what they accept but how do they behave. It's not a big deal to send community manager to take part in discussions and give some answers in live. If they'd answer us somehow, there'll be no spam.
@Acid: Galaad, Sempai etc. are better speakers than me, but let me try to answer you. Those votes are the easy, much less important, easy and pretty fast things to implement, which do not contradicts to their own vision of what the game should be like. It is as easy as copy and pasting creatures, specializations and other things from H6. I didn't care that much about spiders, for example. Because the core mechanics makes the game engaging or not, like H5 sucks you into it like a vaccum cleaner.
"fans wanted a random skill system - Ubi/Limbic listened and did it"
nope, that is NOT a random skill system, that is just the illusion of a random skill system, 10/10 skills are pre-selected, a hero class is defined by a fixed skillwheel...
Yes, that's what exactly the try to do. They try to trick us and immitate things - like random system, which will have little influence on the gameplay and have mostly a graphical representation of what it actually should BE like - skillwheel or limited random choices, no engaging specializations per level - no real feeling of getting stronger at it, of heros getting better at it, the feeling of development etc.
...and the the core mechanics is the most important part of the game...
UBI should to make a VOTE to ask this question officially:
Do you prefer the skill system of Heroes V(ranfom/complicated) or VI(eary to use/ linear)?
Random skill system will be truly random. The problem is that it will be too random, hence it would be difficult to use.
Never had much of a problem with H3 and H5 myself. If you know how to use it, it isn't that hard to manipulate it and probability to get what you want, normally by using the advanced slots only when none of the other choices for a new skill appeal to you.
Oh you still end up with things you don't want and non-optimal build order, but those are sharply reduced by manipulating it right. Only if you try to rush expert without having any basic skills do you run into problems.
Neither have I. There is a serious issue regarding the current random skill system, that I described here:
Думаю, на русском изложу более кратко.
Никто этот сайт не воспринимал особо серьёзно. Изначально было ясно, что слишком прислушиваться к нам не будут. Более того, я думал, что голосования - не более чем маркетинг с иллюзией выбора. Мою мысль пошатнул факт, когда каким-то образом нам пообещали рандомные скиллы в ответ на #GURS. Я решил, что юбисофт действительно прислушаются к тому, что говорят фанаты и в какой-то мере решил, что есть смысл тратить своё время на этот сайт.
Т.к. я большой фанат серии, которая меня во многом и вдохновила в своё время открыть свою компанию по разработке мобильных игр в своё время (кстати, покупайте что-нибудь http://www.about-fun.com). Учитывая то, что Герои-6 - это было нечто несуразное, очень хотелось видеть герои-7 чем-то большим чем ещё одна франшиза, которую доит юбисофт, прилагая минимальные усилия в разработке и устанавливая заоблачный ценник, выруливая деньги просто за счёт лояльного комьюнити и раскрученного бренда.
До того как спамить и флудить, мы обсуждали КОНСТРУКТИВНО НЕДЕЛЯМИ беспокоящие нас проблемы, но никто не соизволил спуститься с небес и поговорить с нами. Дело не в том, что наши требования не выполнялись. Проблема в том, что они даже не обсуждались. И реакция была ТОЛЬКО на флуд. Что нам оставалось делать кроме как флудить, привлекая к себе внимание?
Вопреки тому, что нас там ворчунами и троллями прозвали, боюсь, что это не так, ребята. Большинство из тех, кто поддерживал нас, - люди 23-29 лет
Многих знаю по Heroescommunity, среди них программисты, геймдизайнеры, дизайнеры, художники, музыканты. Но нас почему-то решили назвать "безмозглой толпой" и "подростковым бунтом". Если не понимаете, что людьми движет и из-за чего они что-то делают просто так, - не торопитесь вешать ярлыки. У нас была цель и мы её добивались. Методы не те, - да. Но все иные методы были использованы и остались безуспешными. А что делали вы? - ворчали о том, что мы ворчим? Это очень удобная позиция.
Если у вас были мысли - вам никто не мешал их озвучивать. Но вы предпочли ложное высокомерие этому. Мол, "мы в этом не участвуем". Так а что вы вообще делаете здесь, в таком случае?
И цель изначально у нас была одна - добиться ДИАЛОГА с командой юбисофта в таком формате, как это происходит у всех нормальных издателей-разработчиков (blizzard, valve и тд). Ведь они сами заявили, что готовы к диалогу. Мы их даже не просили об этом. Но слова разошлись с делом. Это плохо.
Вот мы и начали наш небольшой флешмоб, пытаясь вынудить юбисофт отреагировать. Хэштэг, который я придумал (#SUR (проявите уважение)), был создан для того, чтобы юбисофт обратили внимание на наши проблемы: после недели жалоб на откровенно плохое колесо умений и отсутствие вообще какой-либо реакции на это со стороны юбисофт, а потом открытие предзаказа с закрытым бета-тестом - это просто плевок в лицо поклонникам серии, которые так преданно зависали на этом форуме, какими бы они ни были.
Нам было много и просьбы были разные. Лично моя просьба состояла в том, чтобы Юбисофт выпустила открытую бета-версию (хотя бы для ВСЕХ участников Shadow Council, пусть и позже предзаказавших) или демо-версию перед релизом, дав возможность поиграть в сомнительного на данный момент качества игру, чтобы принимать сознательное решение о том, покупать игру или нет, основываясь на опыте и не прибегая к пиратству. Об этом я задал вопрос лично юбиноксу, но ответ получен не был.
Потом появились и другие, более сюрреалистичные требования: переделать колесо, вернуть Ван Канингхема, уволить Ле Бретона и тд.. Но, как все могли заметить, нас было много, поэтому и пожелания у всех были разные. Но всех объединяло одно: #SUR. Но, к сожалению, Юбисофт решили отгородиться стеной и показать истинное отношение к комьюнити.
Вы же понимаете степень фрустрации, когда тот же ЛеБретон в интервью говорит о возвращении к корням и возвращении привычной механики (не шестёрочной)
а потом анонсируют это недоразумение, указыая на то, что субъективным мнением является мнение большинства (да-да, ребят, это мнение большинства - посмотрите на популярные комментарии, почитайте комментарии, зайдите на другие сайты по игре - подавляющее большинство признаёт систему героев-6 неудачной) и что они не считают "неконтролируемую" систему (которая работала во всех играх героев с 1 части по 5) хорошей и знают лучше, что нам надо. И говорят, что "мнения разделились на этот счёт".
Лично я верю своим глазам. Не знаю, на чём они основывают своё мнение, но на данный момент очевидно, что система навыков 5 героев имела свои недостатки и их было много. Но на тот момент это была вершина развития системы скиллов серии, которую нужно было ДОРАБАТЫВАТЬ, а не разрушать и пытаться слепить из кубиков шар.
Но нас не захотели слышать. Я бы без проблем принял отказ, где бы вежливо описали причины, почему сделать этого не могут. Мы бы успокоились, смирились и стали бы ждать герои-8.
но вместо этого мы получили статью (которая, правда, была создана несколько ранее) "вопросы-ответы", которую писал какой-то бык. Я не знаю, кто это был, но этот человек явно не обучен работе с сообществом. Вся статья пропитана принципом "я лучше знаю". Так какого чёрта вообще было создавать видимость открытой разработки, господа?
Забавно, что уже любителей героев-5, которым я являюсь (считаю искренне лучшей игрой во всей серии), считают "олдфагами" и гетроградами. =)
Проблема в том, что играя в герои 1-2-3-5 (4 пропускаем т.к. игра не особо плохая, но слишком много "инноваций", которые увели её из серии), видно, как игра прогрессировала. Герои 6 стала посмешищем. Логично, что не хотелось нам видеть герои 6 в героях 7. Но не сложилось. :)
Что ж, у юбисофт есть "видение"...удачи им с этим. А я на данный момент не вижу необходимости вкладывать своё время в этот сайт (по крайней мере, до перемены отношения юбисофта к сообществу).
Паша, с последним постом по поводу того, что в 5 была вершина эволюции, подпишусь под каждой буквой! По поводу легитимности голосования, я думаю у каждого свое мнение. А уж если ты привел в пример близзов, то в отличие от большинства здешнего флуда в стиле "а где грифоны" --- старкрафт кибер дисциплина. И там например сейчас, при бете ЛОВТ пишут в основном по делу, исходя из сотен сыгранных матчей, тут скорее наоборот, ты не согласен?
Спасибо! За информацию! Если она правдива!
@Adam, я согласен с тем, что там работают с комьюнити правильно. Если бы здесь были умелые комьюнити-менеджеры и вели работу правильно, здесь бы всё пошло в правильное русло. Да чего там говорить, даже в нашем хаосе было куча всего полезного вплоть до артов ребят, которые переделывали в лучшую сторону графические нюансы.
Солидарен практически по всем пунктам.
Этот флешмоб затевался как слабая надежда на возвращение механики героев V, ведь к нам обещали прислушиваться. Но нифига подобного( но мы сделали всё, что от нас зависело, а следовательно -- можем спать спокойно ныне. От нас уже ничего не зависит.
После всего этого развода, к фирме под названием Ubisoft, доверия больше не имею.
Эх, грустно и обидно за любимую игру :с да, 5 часть, безусловно, лучшая в серии! Я надеялась, что последующие части будут строиться на доработке и усовершенствовании пятерки: с теперешней графикой, если приложить фантазию и усилия получилась бы великолепная игра, которая порадовала бы всех фанатов серии. А юби, к сожалению, решили сложить на нас, простите, хер, и сделать очередной ширпотреб, выезжая лишь на популярности самой серии! Стыд и позор!!
What a beatiful spring day to show some elves! Don't you think? :D
It is a bit rainy outside, With a bit of thunder in the distance. Not that it makes it less desireable...
They properly will show you some elves when beta is crashing and buggy :D
Wooding1, they don't have to update the site immediately. Just arts for the beginning!
Yea, some artwork of sketching or ideas will be nice, TS for example XD
I luv ubi
I like skill system
funny thing is i see sandro in the background when you are asking for charity
troglodytes , please. \ Please show a new article \
Please show a new article!
Кара вот охота тебе расстраиваться перед праздниками )
What about the medusa!?
Troglodyte & Ms Medusa! )
Dungeon and Sylvan, please.
yes! its time for a new faction reveal, i want to see more before i pre-order. at least, a sneak peak if not a page update.
Мирашь мне праздник весны так просто не испортить!
Наконец дождалась тепла!!!
The trick is that UBI wants to invest little in this game, but earn much. That is the thing. They do not want to invest to make a great game, but they want to make great money on milking the franchize and its name.
thats true, i guess same, they probably see heroes games like small project with small profit.. and sadly they are right about result: fans quit supporting with fair reasons>small profit again. not lazyness, but the big money guy of ubisoft doesnt care much to invest.
I would estimate cost of development of this game to 10-20 mil eur. Estimated profits are 120+ mil. Even if they spent 1mil eur on town screen they cant loose. Even if they trippled whole effort they still would be highly profitable. Their business practices are mystery for me. They sacrifice their name for short term gain. But then when thinking about it ... they dont really have good name anyway ...
Maybe that's why they are so blatant and do not care about fanbase anymore.
Well, I won't care for a community which is shitting at me all the time about everything, either...
Maybe they'll hear us, if the "voices" of the community wouldn't be so offensive or, let's say, demanding...
just my opinion.
Sorry, but we are their boss.
Just popping in to say, that... logical.dust, sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. While talking about actual figures is very much off limits, your estimates are very naive and probably based on just a formula of ( sales * priceOfGame ). It's not that simple :)
Unfortunately this is something that nobody can or will really learn unless they are actually in the software development industry - and especially games :/
@ Oakwarrior : yes, their income is much greater as as you see here, they are able to sell same thing actually multiple times. Perhaps you can do better estimation, but rough number isnt way too off ... what makes you think that I am not in software development industry?
Cool! Sad part is that haters will try to "persuade" others not to buy it just beacuse they think that it would hurt Ubi. However actually it hurts primarly people who need help from charity and that's why I hope that everybody who might be interested in any of those games will pay at least the lowest price. Remember counillors even if you hate Ubi you make them no harm but people in need- you do.
PS. Of course if you're not interested in ony of these or you have them don't but it.
I was afraid that people will once again put on their skeleton robes to go out and protest. And against what? Charity?! People should really calm down and look on this humble bundle campaign as way to help the others in need
This is how terrible this fanbase really is.
Its sad and pathetic. This is the worst forum ive ever been on
Yes and no, Zatrankus.
I always buy at HumbleBundle.
And this time will be first time when I NOT.
Cuz Ubi manipulate naive people like you there.
I rather donate towardly to Red Cross right now
ProfesoriuosLT: Ill make a kickstarter to fund you a new brain! You are a pathetic person with your trolling
What about H7-related news? :-)
took them 2 weeks to make that skill wheel Q&A, I think it will Thursday/ Friday for the next one, have some patience, you properly will start to play beta before half of the skills revealed
I'd rather see Sylvan next. The date of game release is very close and we know nothing about Sylvan and Dungeon.
Next faction will be nice, love to see how the sylvan creatures, heroes and TS, I hope they have summoning speciality
I want to see Earth spell too XD
Since they are preparing beta with only 2 factions, I guess the other factions are not ready and they need finish the so-called skill wheel, pre-set heroes and artefacts, unless they are giving you improved demo from fanday :D
Well, you're right. They must be busy now :-) Btw I wonder how is this supposed to be beta with 2 factions only? For me it's more like demo for now ^^ Hope they will release proper beta to look for bugs.
may be there will be a beta round 2 or open beta for more factions and remaining rare bug
No news today.
It's a pity.
selfish really. selfish. I have half of the games on the list but im still doing my bit for charity more important than something we can find out anyday
Я не знаю, как уложить все свое мнение об игре на 500 символов.
Единственное, что я сейчас думаю - угробленная игра. Колесо просто ужасно, на Некрополис смотреть без слез нельзя, Альянс перестал быть таким, каким он был всегда, Эльфы, конечно же, добавят еще больше неприятностей, у Орков дребедень с городом, Академия упоротая.
Что же вы сделали с игрой, Юби? Не хватило извращений над шестеркой? Теперь и обдираловка какая-то.
Я не могу просто не расстраиваться, глядя на это. Спасибо, у меня все.
Ну и пессимизм. Колесо мы еще не видели что бы делать выводы.
исперчивающе впечатлеюще одобрям
А из описаний разве не понятно, что это не то, что хочет видеть большинство, в том числе и я?
Да, пессимизм, большего мнения об этом у меня нет.
Надежда умирает последней. Ждем и надемся на лучшее. Конечно, плохо, что информации совсем мало сливают. невозможно составить исчерпывающего впечатления об игре.
Мб и невозможно, но свое я уже составила.
Я не могу просто спокойно смотреть на то, что сделали с игрой.
Ну хз, может, неплохо в общем счете будет. Хотя, может, и суховато быть, а то, кажется, мы заставляем Эрвана делать то, что ему не нравится) Типа вот ваши любимые элементы из прошлых частей, или, по крайней мере, некоторая часть из них, даже Солмир за отделную плату, а теперь отстаньте, мое шестерочное искусство никто не понимает)
Зато Эрван делает то, что не нравится нам. Мда.
По боьшому счету, с ней пока еще ничего не сделали :)
Ой, по-моему, после 5 это уже не Герои, а жалкая пародия на Героев(( даже название другое)) я тоже жутко огорчена, потому что надеялась, что после неудачного опыта 6 они осознают свои ошибки и сделают наконец достойное продолжение 5 части, но куда там! Уже на этапе разработки это похоже на не пойми что! Всё плохо, да. За исключением, пожалуй, графики и героини-вымпирши из Некрополиса :D
у нас нет выбора , кто любит пошаговые стратегии и герои - будет оптимист ) некуда податься короч ) \некров конечно\ изза внешности \ и ЛЭ \из-за состава\ убили \ ((
ахахаха классический подрыв. игра еще не вышла и уже ЧТО ЖЕ ОНИ СДЕЛАЛИ С ИГРОЙ. :)
пятеркоебы хотят только чтобы после шестой была не семь а пять.
Непогрешимая герои 5 с жирными крестьянами и магусами на слонах рисующими спиральку палочкой в пальцах-сосисках.
короче у пацанов подрывает из-за цены. 2к не потянуть пока хуле лучшеж гта купить не? до сентября скапливать в месяц рублей по триста и норм.
NoMoreVanek, дело не в деньгах, да и 2к не так уж и много для игры, на самом деле. Но объективно 5 и правда лучшая в серии. Дело именно в игровом процессе, графика не при делах, она все же второстепенный критерий оценки. Лично я собираюсь заказать 7, но ооочень сомневаюсь,что она оправдает мои ожидания, ибо уже видны погрешности и наплевательское отношение разработчиков.
)))) ванек культурно и по делу )
таньга решает ))))))))) дайте нам бесплатную бэту ))))))
)))))как только встал вопрос о предзаказе и 64 - винд народ разорался и разбежался )))
NoMoreVanek, я смотрю, у нас умные объявились.
Я хочу вместо семерки пятерку? Пхахахахаха! Нет, я хочу лишь АДЕКВАТНУЮ по всем меркам игру: дело в том, что Юби обещают, а не делают. Обещали смешать все части в одну, а что в итоге? А в итоге слизанная шестерка(почти).
И да, цена не при чем. Я вполне могу позволить себе купить игру, да дело в том, что смысла делать пред-заказ НЕТ.
))Ванек старожил тож бросил форум .....старый матерщинник )))))) но норм иногда в тему зачетно )
Я видела его, не раз видела.
We need a new topic for discussion!